General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[Dcdrac]

This is an extract from The Truce by Primo Levi

http://bostonreview.net/BR24.3/gambetta.html

And] a dream full of horror has still not ceased to visit me, at sometimes frequent, sometimes longer, intervals. It is a dream within a dream, varied in detail, one in substance. I am sitting at a table with my family, or with friends, or at work, or in the green countryside; in short, in a peaceful relaxed environment, apparently without tension or affliction; yet I feel a deep and subtle anguish, the definite sensation of an impending threat.

And in fact, as the dream proceeds, slowly and brutally, each time in a different way, everything collapses, and disintegrates around me, the scenery, the walls, the people, while the anguish becomes more intense and more precise. Now everything has changed into chaos; I am alone in the centre of a grey and turbid nothing, and now, I know what this thing means, and I also know that I have always known it; I am in the Lager once more, and nothing is true outside the Lager. All the rest was a brief pause, a deception of the senses, a dream; my family, nature in flower, my home.

Now this inner dream, this dream of peace, is over, and in the outer dream, which continues, gelid, a well-known voice resounds: a single word, not imperious, but brief and subdued. It is the dawn command, of Auschwitz, a foreign word, feared and expected: get up, "Wstawàch."

 

[Clayton Moore]

Public impression of the holocaust is derived from representations presented in the media. It seems like the crook Wiesel is a guest on Oprah Winfrey’s show every other week, and he is usually found within arm’s reach of US presidents during televised holocaust memorial events.

To top it off, Night (the book he probably never wrote), is mandatory reading for impressionable young school children in many US states. This monster really is the public face of holocaust hatred.

Holocaust Hugging 101 makes it clear the lies are to be ignored and liars are NOT to be brought to bear.

 

[Straw Man]

Get yourself a calculator and do the numbers. Include the alleged movement of all people, Jewish and non Jewish, to the camps.

Then scratch your head and say where was the outcry from the friends and relatives of the PEOPLE who are said to have gone missing?

Over a period of three years did the millions of friends and relatives not notice that their friends and relatives had disappeared?

Over that same period of three years no good people spoke up and leaked to the world that this was happening? Nor in the decade after and the decade after that?

What kind of nonsense is this? The camps were discovered before the end of the war - 1945, and it became common knowledge. The holocaust didn't spring up in the 1970's.

You ask where was the outcry from the friends and relatives that went missing? Have you actually done ANY research on Germany between 1933 and 1945? Most of the friends and relatives were shipped off, or stuck into ghettos. And the non-Jewish friends? Most kept quiet as even before the war it wasn't healthy being a friend of a Jew, and asking questions meant you ended up somewhere that wasn't too nice.

During this 3 year period, are you suggesting that they go to the (state controlled) newspapers to point the genocide out, or are you so nuts that you think that they could just pick up the phone or go on the internet?

Also, relatives that escaped Germany did try to find out about their relatives back home.

 

[Border Reiver]

Get yourself a calculator and do the numbers. Include the alleged movement of all people, Jewish and non Jewish, to the camps.

Then scratch your head and say where was the outcry from the friends and relatives of the PEOPLE who are said to have gone missing?

Over a period of three years did the millions of friends and relatives not notice that their friends and relatives had disappeared?

Over that same period of three years no good people spoke up and leaked to the world that this was happening? Nor in the decade after and the decade after that?

I present Pastor Niemoller's lovely poem

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

 

[Clayton Moore]

What kind of nonsense is this? The camps were discovered before the end of the war - 1945, and it became common knowledge. The holocaust didn't spring up in the 1970's.

You ask where was the outcry from the friends and relatives that went missing? Have you actually done ANY research on Germany between 1933 and 1945? Most of the friends and relatives were shipped off, or stuck into ghettos. And the non-Jewish friends? Most kept quiet as even before the war it wasn't healthy being a friend of a Jew, and asking questions meant you ended up somewhere that wasn't too nice.

During this 3 year period, are you suggesting that they go to the (state controlled) newspapers to point the genocide out, or are you so nuts that you think that they could just pick up the phone or go on the internet?

Also, relatives that escaped Germany did try to find out about their relatives back home.

Germany?

 

[Clayton Moore]

What tour guides at Auschwitz-Birkenau won’t show you…

http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/what-tour-guides-at-auschwitz-birkenau-wont-show-you/

 

[Nick Terry]

Get yourself a calculator and do the numbers. Include the alleged movement of all people, Jewish and non Jewish, to the camps.

Then scratch your head and say where was the outcry from the friends and relatives of the PEOPLE who are said to have gone missing?

Over a period of three years did the millions of friends and relatives not notice that their friends and relatives had disappeared?

Over that same period of three years no good people spoke up and leaked to the world that this was happening? Nor in the decade after and the decade after that?

http://archive.jta.org/

all you have to do is input the right years and the right search terms.

 

[TSR]

Get yourself a calculator and do the numbers. Include the alleged movement of all people, Jewish and non Jewish, to the camps.

BTDT -- this is the sort of thing you find in those book thingies to which you're apparently violently allergic.

Then scratch your head and say where was the outcry from the friends and relatives of the PEOPLE who are said to have gone missing?

To whom would other internees of the ghettoes and camps have cried out?

Over a period of three years did the millions of friends and relatives not notice that their friends and relatives had disappeared?

WHo lkied and todl you that?

Over that same period of three years no good people spoke up and leaked to the world that this was happening? Nor in the decade after and the decade after that?

You really should work with your therapist to overcome that fear of actual history if you're not going to continue asking questions that have been answered for decades.

 

[TSR]

Holocaust Hugging 101 makes it clear the lies are to be ignored and liars are NOT to be brought to bear.

But we *are* pointing out the lies you post.

And then laughing as you run away from them.

 

[Straw Man]

Germany?

That's right. Your Nazis live somewhere else? Perhaps on the other planet you're on.

 

[TSR]

What tour guides at Auschwitz-Birkenau won’t show you…

http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2011/10/28/what-tour-guides-at-auschwitz-birkenau-wont-show-you/

... because most people visiting there don't care about delousing chambers.

But thanks for demonstrating that delousing chambers did not tend to have crematoria associated with them.

And I find it interesting that your page give precedence of place to Muchos Nombres without mentioning his many many lies (where is a single denier condemning them, or do denier lies not count?), nor his eventual admission that "chemistry is not the science which can prove or refute any allegations about the Holocaust 'rigorously'."

We know *you* know about that confession, as it has been pointed out to you here more than once: why do you dishonestly gloss over the point?

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_extermination_camp#Murder_procedure

Sonderkommando

A few Jewish prisoners were selected from incoming transports to form a forced-labor detachment (Sonderkommando) of 50 to 60 men deployed at the forest camp. They removed corpses from the gas vans and buried them in the mass graves. Because the graves quickly filled and the smell of decomposing bodies began to permeate the surrounding area, including nearby villages, the SS and police ordered some time in the spring of 1942 that in future the bodies be burned on open air "ovens" made of concrete with pipes used for air ducts and long ash pans in the forest camp.[10] Jewish Sonderkommando members were also responsible for exhuming the graves and burning the previously interred bodies. In addition, they sorted the clothing of the victims and cleaned the excrement and blood in the vans. Another small detachment of about 15 Jews worked at the manor house, sorting and packing the belongings of the victims. Between eight and ten skilled craftsmen produced or repaired goods for the SS special detachment. Periodically, SS and police officials would kill the members of the Jewish special detachments and replace them with laborers selected from more recent transports. The SS would hold jumping contests and races among the prisoners, who were shackled with chains on their ankles, to deem who was fit to continue working; the losers of these contests were killed.[1]

The idiocy never ceases.

 

[Straw Man]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_extermination_camp#Murder_procedure

Sonderkommando


The idiocy never ceases.

You're right. You keep on posting.

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://archive.jta.org/

all you have to do is input the right years and the right search terms.

Like this nonsense?

http://archive.jta.org/article/1942...able-gas-chambers-of-thousands-of-polish-jews

 

[TSR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_extermination_camp#Murder_procedure

...doesn't lead to

Sonderkommando

, which would be http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_extermination_camp#Sonderkommando

Denier "scholarship"' in action.

The idiocy never ceases.

No, you do seem to have an endless supply...

The SS would hold jumping contests and races among the prisoners, who were shackled with chains on their ankles, to deem who was fit to continue working; the losers of these contests were killed.

Because, of course, everyone knows white Jews can't jump.

 

[TSR]

Like this nonsense?

http://archive.jta.org/article/1942...able-gas-chambers-of-thousands-of-polish-jews

What, exactly, do you find non-sensical about a report dated from very early in the Final Solution?

 

[uke2se]

Looks like one of our last remaining deniers has finally broken down. Time to break out the champagne.

 

[Belz...]

Holocaust Hugging 101 makes it clear the lies are to be ignored and liars are NOT to be brought to bear.

Instead of just repeating the same no-content comments all the time, would you mind posting some actual evidence that challenges the consensus ? Right now you're just making wild claims and expect your word to be enough.

 

[Belz...]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chełmno_extermination_camp#Murder_procedure

Sonderkommando


The idiocy never ceases.

Clayton, a word of advice: arguments from incredulity are a fallacy.

 

[000063]

Do you think the Holocaust hugging, lying by omission MSM is the place for real real evidence?

Literally no one has said that. Several people, including Nessie and me, have explicitly pointed out that the MSM's portrayal of events is quite often wrong, which is why few historians use them as a primary source if they can help it. Indeed, we have repeatedly pointed out and cited various sources of evidence.

But if you'd like to continue dodge questions by creating false dichotomies where the only sources of historical evidence are the MSM or your biased sources, feel free.

Get yourself a calculator and do the numbers. Include the alleged movement of all people, Jewish and non Jewish, to the camps.

No. Present your calculations, supported with evidence.

Then scratch your head and say where was the outcry from the friends and relatives of the PEOPLE who are said to have gone missing?

That's supposed to be a period, Clay.

Over a period of three years did the millions of friends and relatives not notice that their friends and relatives had disappeared?

Considering that they just as easily could've been nicked as well, they probably did.

Over that same period of three years no good people spoke up and leaked to the world that this was happening?

Wrong. I'll bet you will never provide a single actual debunker that makes such an assertion. There were plenty of people who knew what was going on. After a certain point, the Nazis didn't even really try to keep it a secret.

Nor in the decade after and the decade after that?

There was plenty of outcry. Again, argument by implication.

Feel free to present more than incredulity based rhetorical questions and denier websites anytime.

So where are the MSM's criticisms of the fabrications weaved into the public's sensibilities?

There are these paper things called "books", Moore.

Why hasn't an investigation of the contention that Elie's tattoo doesn't exist been on 60 Minutes or Nightline or Geraldo?

Because basically no one cares about her except deniers. You wouldn't expect them to run an in-depth investigation on the fact that George Washington's cherry-tree story isn't true, would you? Also, no educated European believed the world was flat when Columbus set out, and he didn't discover America in 1492. And the Salem Witch Trials never burned a woman at the stake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions

There is so much the public has wrong it is literally not worth the time to correct them.

Holocaust Hugging 101 makes it clear the lies are to be ignored and liars are NOT to be brought to bear.

Crap, I didn't take that one. Must've missed it on the schedule.