Moderated Will the 2012 Olympic Games in London be held?

[JoeTheJuggler]

Arguably all true. But a diversion into what Sabrina may or may not believe is way off topic.

This thread is about Peace's claims, not anyone else's.

FWIW, Sabrina's claim was a claim about PC's claims (compared to her own). Technically, challenging her claim is actually no different than defending PC against this particular challenge. Yes, I will defend PC that much. His beliefs are no more irrational than any other supernatural belief. There are many valid challenges that have been made to PC's claims, but that other God beliefs are less irrational (or less "wild" or "vastly different") just isn't one of them.

 

[SezMe]

So it's fair to challenge the claim that there is a vast difference between two entities for whose existence there is no evidence?

Sure. It seems obvious to me the guidance (or message. or philosophy. or whatever.) from PC's and Sabrina's god are starkly different. Doesn't matter if that god exists - what derives from that belief is different.

For example, physicists have argued for decades over the properties that the Higgs particle may have but its very existence was in question. Now you may say that the physicists' claims are testable and god is not and you'd be right. But that is not germane to the argument discussion.

 

[dafydd]

An hour into Wednesday here and no nuclear holocaust. Should I remove the draught excluder from the door?

 

[SezMe]

dafydd, you're too impatient. It's gonna go KA-BOOOOOM in 3...2...1....

 

[Akhenaten]

It's just after 9am in 'straya and no earthquakes and no eerie red glow on the northern horizon.

My draft stoppers are working!

 

[PeaceCrusader]

I don't care. If that's what it takes to get an all-powerful being to not let billions of his children die, I don't give a damn. That is not a being worth even an ounce of my respect, loyalty, or love. Such behavior only deserves disdain.




Two things: 1) you don't need to tell me that Jesus is a fairly impotent figure in your religion, and 2) as I understand, he actually isn't responsible for humanity's free will.

Your god's idea of free will is "you're free to worship me and nothing else, including nothing itself, or be punished." How is that not offensive?

20120711.0930

@Cl1mh4224rd, #1328

What this all-powerful being could do is warn us through prophecy (John 16:13 – “he [Spirit of truth] will show you things to come”). Since the Spirit of truth or the Holy Spirit knows everything, He will tell us what is to come.

This time, it will be man who will kill his fellowmen because there is no love. Man is selfish. Jesus said in Matthew 22:39, “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”

Jesus gave man the free will to do good or to do bad. (“Kung ibig mong sumama (to be evil), sa iyo magmumula. Kung ibig mong gumaling, sa iyo manggagaling.” - “If you want to be evil, it is from you where it will come from. If you want to be healed, it is also from you where it will come from.”)

 

[Marcus]

I'm betting on the "we prayed so hard that God decided to let us off this time" defense.

There you go PC, a win-win. The medium not only gets off the hook for the failed prediction, but gets credit for saving the world by inspiring the prayers.

 

[Drs_Res]

What if he composed it in Word, then saved it as html, then copied and pasted from the html source document into his browser?

Even so, why would someone compose their forum posts in Word? He's still accountable for what he puts into the message field, and all the font tags are really annoying (and pointless).

HTML tags are < > not [ ]. The [ ] are BB Code tags. I don't see how Word would add BB Code tags to text unless there is some setting for that that I am not aware of.

That pretty much leaves PC adding the tags manually either by typing them at the start and end of every sentence, or highlighting each sentence individually and using the font drop down in the reply box.

 

[dafydd]

20120711.0930

@Cl1mh4224rd, #1328

What this all-powerful being could do is warn us through prophecy (John 16:13 – “he [Spirit of truth] will show you things to come”). Since the Spirit of truth or the Holy Spirit knows everything, He will tell us what is to come.

This time, it will be man who will kill his fellowmen because there is no love. Man is selfish. Jesus said in Matthew 22:39, “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.”

Jesus gave man the free will to do good or to do bad. (“Kung ibig mong sumama (to be evil), sa iyo magmumula. Kung ibig mong gumaling, sa iyo manggagaling.” - “If you want to be evil, it is from you where it will come from. If you want to be healed, it is also from you where it will come from.”)

You are preaching to the wrong audience. Are you going to use the ''we prayed very hard so god spared us'' excuse?

 

[Elizabeth I]

Well it certainly isn't this Wednesday and I very much doubt that it's going to be next Wednesday..
So when are you going to run away?

Seventh son of a seventh son

At least if it happens a week from tomorrow I won't have to go to our board meeting. I'm not sure if that result justifies world-wide destruction, though.

 

[Akhenaten]

10:30am

. . . and we're still here.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

HTML tags are < > not [ ]. The [ ] are BB Code tags. I don't see how Word would add BB Code tags to text unless there is some setting for that that I am not aware of.

That pretty much leaves PC adding the tags manually either by typing them at the start and end of every sentence, or highlighting each sentence individually and using the font drop down in the reply box.

Oh--you're right. I hadn't thought of that.

Not that what I described would have made it more excusable than changing the font each and every time in the message field in his browser anyway.

 

[PeaceCrusader]

20120711.1030

I do not know what the fuzz is all about font verdana. I just prepare my response like this one in MS Word, copy, and paste on to JREF’s reply box. I will try my best to modify my way of responding and tell me if the font verdana does not appear anymore.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Sure. It seems obvious to me the guidance (or message. or philosophy. or whatever.) from PC's and Sabrina's god are starkly different. Doesn't matter if that god exists - what derives from that belief is different.

For example, physicists have argued for decades over the properties that the Higgs particle may have but its very existence was in question. Now you may say that the physicists' claims are testable and god is not and you'd be right. But that is not germane to the argument discussion.

Of course even when the existence of the Higgs boson was in question, it had internal consistency, and I think the fact that the god claims (and Sagan's garage dragon) are all by definition not testable (or as I prefer to say it, what they all have in common is that there is no measurement or observation that would come out any different whether or not they existed) is germane. I think it makes them all "vastly" the same! That is, it makes them far more similar to one another than they are to claims about entities without this trait.

Is the claim of the existence of an Invisible Pink Unicorn vastly different than either Sabrina's or PC's god? Sure we can discuss traits that they might have if they existed (but of course none of these traits can produce anything measurable or observable, so it's exactly the same as just saying that they exist but they have no traits, or they exist but they all have the traits of the "other" god).

I certainly don't think it's fair to say one claim is "wild" and the other is not.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I just prepare my response like this one in MS Word, copy, and paste on to JREF’s reply box.

Why do you do this? Why not just "prepare" (that is, type) your responses in the JREF reply box?

 

[SezMe]

Is the claim of the existence of an Invisible Pink Unicorn vastly different than either Sabrina's or PC's god?

I'm not sure that Sabrina has made such a claim. Certainly PC has. The latter is, I'm sure you'll agree, no better than one about the FSM.

 

[Akhenaten]

20120711.1030[/FONT

I do not know what the fuzz is all about font verdana. I just prepare my response like this one in MS Word, copy, and paste on to JREF’s reply box. I will try my best to modify my way of responding and tell me if the font verdana does not appear anymore. [/FONT

Here's a hint.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Dum-dee-dum... It appears that China has, at most, one week to recruit and train 197 million soldiers. Good luck with that.

What this all-powerful being could do is warn us through prophecy (John 16:13 – “he [Spirit of truth] will show you things to come”). Since the Spirit of truth or the Holy Spirit knows everything, He will tell us what is to come.

I dare say, for an all-powerful being that could prevent the deaths of billions of his children without any effort at all, his inaction is reprehensible. Why even warn us? Does he enjoy torturing his devoted followers with the knowledge of inevitable death and destruction? I find that unacceptable.

What lesson is he teaching, anyway? "Love each other or die"? Your god is both a terrible teacher and a terrible parent...

This time, it will be man who will kill his fellowmen because there is no love. Man is selfish.

"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him [...]" Where's that from, I wonder?

Jesus gave man the free will to do good or to do bad. (“Kung ibig mong sumama (to be evil), sa iyo magmumula. Kung ibig mong gumaling, sa iyo manggagaling.” - “If you want to be evil, it is from you where it will come from. If you want to be healed, it is also from you where it will come from.”)

That's not a granting of free will. If I were elected President of the United States and three months later, someone frustratingly commented, "You're the President; you can do whatever you want," has that person suddenly granted me the power of the presidency? No, of course not.

Even within the context of Christianity, humanity had free will long before Jesus was said to be born. How are you ignorant of this?

Why do you do this? Why not just "prepare" (that is, type) your responses in the JREF reply box?

Two reasons I can think of: 1) he may not use a browser with spell-checking and therefore relies on Word for that function, and 2) he may also use the grammar-checking abilities of Word.

 

[tsig]

I'd say you're welcome, but... you're not, not really.

I don't believe a word you are saying, PC, except what I can prove via references and evidence. Thus far, you have presented none; merely your own speculation regarding what an apparent con-woman spouts while supposedly suffering some sort of seizure in which she claims God is speaking through her.

I happen to believe in God myself, but I'm a rarity on these forums; and quite frankly, the God I believe in, while He/She/It may be disappointed with humanity, would never wreak vengeance of the like that you're espousing because of something called "free will" that was granted a long, long, LONG time ago. If humanity is destroyed, God will have nothing to do with it; it'll all be on those people who pushed their respective buttons, presumably with middle fingers raised high to the rest of the human race.

I will check back in on the day the Olympics start; I'll expect to see your retraction of your nonsense then.

I'm not sure that Sabrina has made such a claim. Certainly PC has. The latter is, I'm sure you'll agree, no better than one about the FSM.

PC and Sabrina both claim to know god's mind.

 

[TSR]

PC and Sabrina both claim to know god's mind.

But Sabrina is most definitely *not* saying that she has the SkyDaddy's private line, or that you should believe her way or that you should change your behaviour in any fashion because of her belief. PC does.

Is that really such a hard concept to wrap your head around?