Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

[Childlike Empress]

So has the murder rate. But at least those victims were "politically conscious" when they were killed.

Was about to tell you as well to read the thread because I remembered the murder problem was talked about, but then checked if you had participated in it and found out that WE, the two of us, talked about that very issue.

edit: and a page later I followed-up with posting this article which goes into details.

 

[Virus]

The revolution does just fine.

If by revolution you mean consolidating control of all branches of government and intimidation of his opposition then yeah it's going fine like most socialist revolutions.

It's interesting how his closest political allies are totalitarian states like Communist Cuba and the Islamic theocracy of Iran.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Her closest political allies are the member states of ALBA who followed the example of Bolivarianism, among them Bolivia and Ecuador.

 

[geni]

Just look at what they have to cook up. They just managed a "constitutional" coup in Paraguay ousting Fernando Lugo two weeks ago - i'm sure next to nobody here heard about that.

I did. Wikipedia ran it on its main page. Admitedly in part because Lugo is a meme on wikipedia.

 

[geni]

The members of the committee can be selected first by Chavez himself, then by a Chavez-designated heir. Who would then designate his heir and so on.

"Chavez-designated heir" strikes me as unlikely.

 

[McHrozni]

Chavez has innitiated many programms for the poor, medical, education, housing etc etc.

accroding to the CIA the economy is not shrinking anymore, but actually growing at a reate higher than most western countries. 4.2%

https://www.cia.gov/library/publica...tryName=World&countryCode=xx&regionCode=oc&#x

and it still is not a dictatorship , its a democracy.

It also explicitly points out this is just a reflection of higher oil prices and balooning government debt. Not that you'd read anyting beyond a misleading figure if it happens to support what you determined to be The Truth^TM.

McHrozni

 

[DC]

It also explicitly points out this is just a reflection of higher oil prices and balooning government debt. Not that you'd read anyting beyond a misleading figure if it happens to support what you determined to be The Truth^TM.

McHrozni

So he does what Obama wants the rest of the world to do, increase government spending to help the economy. Spending our way out of the crisis. well Chavez did and now thats not ok also? interesting.

 

[McHrozni]

So he does what Obama wants the rest of the world to do, increase government spending to help the economy. Spending our way out of the crisis. well Chavez did and now thats not ok also? interesting.

I made no judgment call as to whether this was good or bad, but rather showed why your comparison was invalid.

Try not to debate whether Chavez was good for Venezuelan economy or not. You'll loose.

McHrozni

 

[DC]

I made no judgment call as to whether this was good or bad, but rather showed why your comparison was invalid.

Try not to debate whether Chavez was good for Venezuelan economy or not. You'll loose.

McHrozni

well i merely showed Virus's claim of shrinking economy to be wrong. and that with a source that surely can't be called biased towards Chavez.

i dont get what your problem is.
i don't like the idea of spending out of the crisis. i dislike it when Obama does it, i dislike when Chavez does it.
but this changes nothing about the false claim by Virus.
what is your problem?

 

[Ziggurat]

Was about to tell you as well to read the thread because I remembered the murder problem was talked about, but then checked if you had participated in it and found out that WE, the two of us, talked about that very issue.

edit: and a page later I followed-up with posting this article which goes into details.

Yes, we talked about that, and you posted that article... three years ago. And how have things progressed since then?

They seem to have gotten worse. How long will it take, CE? How many more years, how many more deaths should Venezuela give Chavez to solve the violent crime surge that appeared under his leadership? How many years and how many deaths will it take for you to conclude that he is failing?

 

[trustbutverify]

I've heard the theory repeated many times that violent crime is mainly the result of unjust societies, in which people feel alienated and hopeless. Shouldn't violent crime have decreased under Chavez, not increased?

 

[McHrozni]

well i merely showed Virus's claim of shrinking economy to be wrong.

It's not wrong if you take in account the market value of Venezuelan currency.

and that with a source that surely can't be called biased towards Chavez.

The source also didn't show what you were claiming it showed.

i dont get what your problem is.

I tend to have a problem with people misrepresenting facts, like you did. Fair enough?

i don't like the idea of spending out of the crisis. i dislike it when Obama does it, i dislike when Chavez does it.

That's stupid, spending your way out of crisis is a pretty good option. The problem with Chavez lies elsewhere - namely he wastes a lot of money to damage 'capitalist' economy, wastes a whole lot more in corruption and only creates future drags on budget. Granted, there are small gains from those drags, but they could easily be achieved far better. Cuban doctors, for example, cost him $120,000/year each. Not bad for US, let alone Venezuelan standards.

but this changes nothing about the false claim by Virus.

Except for that if wasn't, in fact, false you mean?

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Yes, we talked about that, and you posted that article... three years ago. And how have things progressed since then?

They seem to have gotten worse. How long will it take, CE? How many more years, how many more deaths should Venezuela give Chavez to solve the violent crime surge that appeared under his leadership? How many years and how many deaths will it take for you to conclude that he is failing?

Don't worry, he started another mission, that will show them!
Granted it's the fourth since 2009, and the first three were total failures, but this one will work! Just wait until after the elections, it needs time. Make sure to vote for him, because Capriles will eliminate it and it will be worse then!
/revorobot

McHrozni

 

[DC]

It's not wrong if you take in account the market value of Venezuelan currency.



The source also didn't show what you were claiming it showed.



I tend to have a problem with people misrepresenting facts, like you did. Fair enough?



That's stupid, spending your way out of crisis is a pretty good option. The problem with Chavez lies elsewhere - namely he wastes a lot of money to damage 'capitalist' economy, wastes a whole lot more in corruption and only creates future drags on budget. Granted, there are small gains from those drags, but they could easily be achieved far better. Cuban doctors, for example, cost him $120,000/year each. Not bad for US, let alone Venezuelan standards.



Except for that if wasn't, in fact, false you mean?

McHrozni

it showed exactly what i said.

 

[McHrozni]

it showed exactly what i said.

Keep believing that, yes. And I'm sure you'll be a good robot and blame The Empire^TM when they devalue and their economy halves overnight.

Hint: it doesn't make you smart.

McHrozni

 

[DC]

Keep believing that, yes. And I'm sure you'll be a good robot and blame The Empire^TM when they devalue and their economy halves overnight.

Hint: it doesn't make you smart.

McHrozni

 

[Childlike Empress]

At this point I suppose the best hopes are either for the appearence of the centerist block or that Chávez dies and the dissafected poor find someone more like Lula da Silva to rally behind.

Lula to Chavez: "Your Victory Will be our Victory"

[...] With Chavez's leadership, the venezuelan people has made extraordinary gains. The popular classes have never ever been treated with such respect, love and dignity. Those conquests must be preserved and strengthened.

Chavez, count on me, count on the PT (Brazilian Workers' Party), count on the solidarity and support of each left-wing militant, each democrat and each Latin American. Your victory will be ours. A strong embrace, a fraternal embrace and thanks comrade for everything you have done for Latin America.

 

[Ziggurat]

Lula to Chavez: "Your Victory Will be our Victory"

I wonder if Venezuela's murders will also be Brazil's murders?

Sometimes, to ask is to know.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Well, where light is there's shadow. You seem to be right, the situation in Caracas has not significantly improved during the last three years. At least Chavez hasn't given himself the right to murder his own citizens without due process when he feels like it, like that hopey changey guy in the White House. Imagine the outrage.

 

[Ziggurat]

Well, where light is there's shadow. You seem to be right, the situation in Caracas has not significantly improved during the last three years. At least Chavez hasn't given himself the right to murder his own citizens without due process when he feels like it, like that hopey changey guy in the White House. Imagine the outrage.

I am unimpressed by your attempted tu quoque.