There was a Conspiracy to mislead US citizens into war with Afghanistan and Iraq

[ConspiracyKiller]

Tell me again, what stretch is used to connect this to the start of the war in Afghanistan?

THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHY THIS THREAD DOES NOT BELONG ON THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY FORUM!

I have never suggested that 9/11 happened because of the long-term US geo-political goals involving Afghanistan and Iraq.

Both the Iraq war and the Afghan war were not really about the US governments stated reasons, (like weapons of mass destruction or getting OBL), but were more about furthering other geo-political interests. The stated claims=secondary reasons were morally more justifiable to the public so they were the reasons given.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WHY THIS THREAD DOES NOT BELONG ON THE 9/11 CONSPIRACY FORUM!

I have never suggested that 9/11 happened because of the long-term US geo-political goals involving Afghanistan and Iraq.

But you are suggesting that 9/11 was an inside job.

 

[BCR]

I think you had better study the pipeline for yourself and quit copy/pasting what some journalist quoted at History Commons has to say about it. We have/had access to the Central Asia reserves via American pipelines. The proposed pipeline may have added a benefit for India, but only if the area was stabilized.

And by the way, China is the biggest competitor for those reserves, not Russia. The US has NEVER occupied Afghanistan with enough resources to stabilize/control it. So after the Soviet and British experiences of the prior century the only realistic option was the Taliban/Pakistan dominance (or so Clinton thought). Of course that was until Hillary started to think about her own political career and the Taliban's record on women's rights took center stage on the news.

So despite the hype, it was not in our interest to invade Afghanistan if our goal was a pipeline. Quite the contrary is true.

 

[DGM]

I have never suggested that 9/11 happened because of the long-term US geo-political goals involving Afghanistan and Iraq.

Where did I say you did? Is English not your native language?

 

[ConspiracyKiller]

But you are suggesting that 9/11 was an inside job.

If you cant link to proof were I supposedly made such a statement then I and every one else will have no choice but to come to the only logical conclusion that YOUR CLAIM IS FALSE!

All I am saying is that weapons of mass destruction and getting OBL were secondary to the main geopolitical goals of the US.

I have NEVER said that the 9/11 attack was carried out by the US but I have said that the aftermath of 9/11 was taken advantage of and used by the US government as an excuse to go after preexisting goals.

But the secondary goals were the stated reasons for war because the US needed a way to convince many of its citizens that, (despite being denied by the UN security council the use of military force), both wars were morally justifiable even though they were both illegal.

The tragedy of 9/11 was and has continued to be taken advantage of by both the bush administration as well as by Obomber.

Please stop making what you know are FALSE CLAIMS!

 

[NoahFence]

One of the problems now for the US is the 'endgame'. Thousands of lives lost and trillions of dollars squandered. The presence of western troops in Muslim lands has only provoked more terrorism than it has prevented. The loss of so much blood and treasure and reports of Afghan villagers being blow up, has in some ultimate sense to have been 'worth it'. If not, the whole decade long war would be seen as futile without gaining something.

What metrics have you used to quantify that statement? Did you compare the deaths of known terrorists versus sucessful terrorist actions?

I mean, if coilition forces took out 100 terrorists, can you cite 101 terrorist actions that happened? I just don't get how you draw that conclusion.

 

[ConspiracyKiller]

I see.

BACK TO THE TOPIC:

However, none of those geo-political interests have actually borne fruit. Isn't this the same argument that says George Bush / Dick Cheney were going to form a dictatorship, using the 9/11 attacks as their reason? Police state and all that?

How'd that work out?

Please clarify, did you just say that because the US has not succeeded in its war then the US stated goals were never really the US goals because the stated goals were never achieved?

 

[NoahFence]

Please clarify, did you just say that because the US has not succeeded in its war then the US stated goals were never really the US goals because the stated goals were never achieved?

If that was really goal #1, we (USA) would have achieved it. It wasn't.

Sorry.

 

[ConspiracyKiller]

What metrics have you used to quantify that statement? Did you compare the deaths of known terrorists versus sucessful terrorist actions?

I mean, if coilition forces took out 100 terrorists, can you cite 101 terrorist actions that happened? I just don't get how you draw that conclusion.

Well to answer your question accurately, who are you calling terrorist?

Are you calling the Taliban, who US officials have said are not the enemy of US enteritis terrorist?

The last time the US thought there were terrorist in Afghanistan was many years ago when the CIA reported that there were less than hundred in Afghanistan.

Now if you are talking about the Taliban then maybe you meant to say insurgents who are fighting the occupation but that of course is different.

 

[ConspiracyKiller]

If that was really goal #1, we (USA) would have achieved it. It wasn't.

Sorry.

So if victory was really goal #1 the US would have achieved it?

 

[NoahFence]

Well to answer your question accurately, who are you calling terrorist?

Are you calling the Taliban, who US officials have said are not the enemy of US enteritis terrorist?

The last time the US thought there were terrorist in Afghanistan was many years ago when the CIA reported that there were less than hundred in Afghanistan.

Now if you are talking about the Taliban then maybe you meant to say insurgents who are fighting the occupation but that of course is different.

That's a non-answer. How many terrorists have died, versus how many lived and carried out a terrorist act?

It was your statement. It's up to you to provide evidence of your claim, not me.

 

[NoahFence]

So if victory was really goal #1 the US would have achieved it?

The US isn't in Afganhistan. Several countries are.

But to answer the question, yes. If all they really wanted was to control a pipeline, they would have done just that.

I believe it's been told to you already however, that the feat of controlling a pipeline of that size in an unstable (politically) region is damn near impossible.

 

[ConspiracyKiller]

The US isn't in Afganhistan. Several countries are.

But to answer the question, yes. If all they really wanted was to control a pipeline, they would have done just that.

I believe it's been told to you already however, that the feat of controlling a pipeline of that size in an unstable (politically) region is damn near impossible.

Why has the US failed to accomplish what ever you think was the #1 main goal in Afghanistan and why do you think it was the #1 main goal since they have failed to accomplish it?

NONE of the Taliban were involved in the 9/11 attacks and because the 9/11 plans were made in Germany and because NO Taliban were involved in the attack. Even if Bush would have managed to kill every single Taliban in an invasion of Afghanistan before 9/11, the 9/11 attacks would have STILL happened.

That’s because NONE of the Taliban had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks. The Taliban are NOT Al Qaeda.

Should we attack Germany because Al Qaeda lived in Germany and the 9/11 plans were made in Germany and much of the logistics of 9/11 were coordinated in Germany?

 

[ConspiracyKiller]

The US isn't in Afganhistan. Several countries are.

But to answer the question, yes. If all they really wanted was to control a pipeline, they would have done just that.

I believe it's been told to you already however, that the feat of controlling a pipeline of that size in an unstable (politically) region is damn near impossible.

Lack of a "pipeline" in Afghanistan means that US set unrealistic conditions and failed to achieve them, not that there was no plan.

Just because the plan created out of hubris before 9/11 regarding a pipe line through Afghanistan failed miserably along with their war does NOT mean that such a plan was not made.

When a decision for military action is made it is based on at LEAST a dozen reasons which should out way (according to the "decider") the dozen reasons for not doing it.

Do you actually believe that the longest war in the history of the world’s currently GREATEST EMPIRE was to go after one man with no regard for any Geo-political interest or fall out?

Though it’s clear that whatever their reason (assumed strategic geo political positioning for some influence with Iran and Russia) it’s easier for Mr. Change to invoke the "were there to get Al Queda" BS and declare it the "good war" to justify continued military action.

 

[NoahFence]

Why has the US failed to accomplish what ever you think was the #1 main goal in Afghanistan and why do you think it was the #1 main goal since they have failed to accomplish it?

NONE of the Taliban were involved in the 9/11 attacks and because the 9/11 plans were made in Germany and because NO Taliban were involved in the attack. Even if Bush would have managed to kill every single Taliban in an invasion of Afghanistan before 9/11, the 9/11 attacks would have STILL happened.

That’s because NONE of the Taliban had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks. The Taliban are NOT Al Qaeda.

Should we attack Germany because Al Qaeda lived in Germany and the 9/11 plans were made in Germany and much of the logistics of 9/11 were coordinated in Germany?

The Taliban harbored Al Qaeda.
Stop defending the Taliban for crying out loud. Its not as if they were/are really swell people anyway.

You still haven't answered my question though - why did you come back after a year and a half, and why are you just hammering the same argument that was destroyed back then? Is it because new people such as myself didn't get to do it back then?

 

[DGM]

Why has the US failed to accomplish what ever you think was the #1 main goal in Afghanistan and why do you think it was the #1 main goal since they have failed to accomplish it?

I bet you have equally interesting views about the war in Vietnam.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

If you cant link to proof were I supposedly made such a statement then I and every one else will have no choice but to come to the only logical conclusion that YOUR CLAIM IS FALSE!

There was a Conspiracy to mislead US citizens into war with Afghanistan and Iraq

Osama Bin Laden, using Afghanistan as a base of operations, with the knowledge, consent and support of the Taliban, carried out an attack against the United States which resulted in the deaths of nearly 3,000 civilians, firefighters law enforcement and military personnel.

There was no conspiracy to mislead, it actually happened.

YOUR CLAIM IS FALSE!

 

[A'isha]

Do you actually believe that the longest war in the history of the world’s currently GREATEST EMPIRE was to go after one man with no regard for any Geo-political interest or fall out?

It certainly makes more sense than thinking that the longest war in the history of the world’s currently GREATEST EMPIRE was solely (or even primarily) because of a pipeline that not only hasn't been built, but is having trouble getting funding more than a decade after the war's start, with no regard for any Geo-political interest or fall out.

 

[ConspiracyKiller]

Osama Bin Laden, using Afghanistan as a base of operations, with the knowledge, consent and support of the Taliban, carried out an attack against the United States which resulted in the deaths of nearly 3,000 civilians, firefighters law enforcement and military personnel.

There was no conspiracy to mislead, it actually happened.

YOUR CLAIM IS FALSE!

US government officials have repeatedly said the Taliban are not the enemy of US interest because the US government does not believe your FALSE CLAIM that the plans for 9/11 were made in Afghanistan as a base of operations, with the knowledge, consent and support of the Taliban.

If what you just said was in anyway true then the US would not have been denied by the UN security council permission for a military campaign against Afghanistan.

The 9/11 commission does not believe you FALSE CLAIM either and I think you know this and have known this for a while.

...

That’s because NONE of the Taliban had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks. The Taliban are NOT Al Qaeda.

Should we attack Germany because Al Qaeda lived in Germany and the 9/11 plans were made in Germany and much of the logistics of 9/11 were coordinated in Germany?

Removed breach of Rule 4.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

 

[ConspiracyKiller]

Then why are tensions escalating between China, Russia, Iran and the US regarding the pipelines? All the big players are trying AT ALL COSTS to win the prize = the Turkmenistan gas and oil reserves.

China has also struck a one-on-one gas import deal with Turkmenistan, the price settled by the two countries is a telling factor in determining the cost that Pakistan would have to pay in the running of this project. Reports tell that China has agreed upon $7.7/mmbtu, which is quite expensive by any standards.

Russia has agreed to finance the Iranian-Pakistan-India, (IPI) pipeline and also agreed to finance the rehabilitation of Guddu and Muzaffargarh power plants. Pakistan is submitting a draft of the Russian agreement for financial and technical assistance for the IP pipeline though the Russian side already assured financial assistance for the pipeline. A Chinese bank is also offering money for the IPI in hopes to stop the US backed TAPI pipeline.

But the US has threatened sanctions against the IPI pipeline and has been aggressively trying to persuade China to withdraw it funding for the IPI while the US has been pushing the TAPI pipeline to drive Pakistan away from the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline project as well as isolate Tehran. How can JREF’ers not see that the US has also told Pakistan that IT WILL FINACE THE TAPI PIPELINE? http://tribune.com.pk/story/389966/o...eline-project/