There was a Conspiracy to mislead US citizens into war with Afghanistan and Iraq

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First I apologies if this topic does not belong in conspiracy theories as it’s an overwhelmingly proven fact based on the preponderance of the evidence but ten years ago and even as recently as four years ago it used to be called a conspiracy theory and people claimed that “ the Afghan war wasn't in any way about a pipeline”.

Part one is about: The Afghanistan war is and has been a geo-political energy war to secure the TAPI pipeline.
Breach of rule 4 removed.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles
 
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With respect to the thesis that all of this adds up to a conspiracy, I myself subscribe to the Dallas Police Theory (wrt to JFK and Oswald's murders):

"Never attribute to Malice what can be ascribed to Incompetence".

:th:
 
Are you familiar with the term "wall of text?" :eye-poppi

Please forgive my wall of text as I honestly left most of the info out assuming that I would post the rest when answering questions.

But I realize this subject has, over the years, already been proven beyond any doubt and therefor is not really meant for a forum that's about conspiracy THEORIES and not facts that have already been proven years ago.

So again I apologize.
 
But I realize this subject has, over the years, already been proven beyond any doubt and therefor is not really meant for a forum that's about conspiracy THEORIES and not facts that have already been proven years ago.

Which facts?

I can't seem to find anything in your OP about how (as you seem to be implying by using the word "mislead") the invasion of Afghanistan was done expressly for the purpose of the pipeline, and not the actual stated reasons at the time. What was the "misleading" that was done? What was the "conspiracy" that carried this out, and how was it done?

Why does your subject line mention Iraq, but your actual OP doesn't actually appear to have anything to do with Iraq (the country is mentioned only twice in your entire text)?
 
Which facts?

I can't seem to find anything in your OP about how (as you seem to be implying by using the word "mislead") the invasion of Afghanistan was done expressly for the purpose of the pipeline, and not the actual stated reasons at the time. What was the "misleading" that was done? What was the "conspiracy" that carried this out, and how was it done?

Why does your subject line mention Iraq, but your actual OP doesn't actually appear to have anything to do with Iraq (the country is mentioned only twice in your entire text)?

#1. What was misleading:
Americans were not told that the U.S. had already been planning on invading Afghanistan before 9/11 happened and therefore Americans were intentionally mislead into believing that the invasion of Afghanistan was an unplanned invasion solely in response to 9/11 in order to capture Osama bin laden because the Taliban refused, (which also is not true), to hand bin laden over.

#2. What was the Conspiracy and how was this carried out:
Here is a recent example of this very long deception that has been carried out for two presidencies. Recently Obama’s top national security aides acknowledged that Obama had concluded in his first year that the Bush-era dream for Afghanistan was a fantasy and that it would make little difference whether a large American and NATO force remained for 2 more years, 5 more years or 10 more years. So now many Americans have since asked why Obama ordered the surge that has resulted in a massive spike in casualties AFTER he had already concluded success was not possible?

First Obama knew he had to flex some muscle, (at the cost of many American service members lives), with the Taliban in order to be able to bring them to the negotiating table to negotiate the best price to secure TAPI pipe line.

Second the surge also helped, (at the cost of many American service members lives), to influence Pakistan in stopping the Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline and gave the US a better position to threaten and enforce sanctions with Iran.

So despite that Obama had already come to the conclusion that victory against the Taliban was not possible he knew that the surge could at least help the U.S. achieve it original goal in the geo-political energy war to secure the TAPI pipeline.

#3. Why is Iraq not mentioned:
Because Part one is about: The Afghanistan war is and has been a geo-political energy war to secure the TAPI pipeline.

And part one, (Afghanistan), needs to be understood, (such as tactics used, the Geo-political strategies used, etc,) in order to discuss part two Iraq.
 
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#1. What was misleading:
Americans were not told that the U.S. had already been planning on invading Afghanistan before 9/11 happened and therefore Americans were intentionally mislead into believing that the invasion of Afghanistan was an unplanned invasion solely in response to 9/11 in order to capture Osama bin laden because the Taliban refused to hand bin laden over (which also is not true).

How is that "misleading"? The sources at the historycommons.org site that your OP is a virtual cut-and-paste of make it clear that the contingency plans against Afghanistan were part of the larger plan to combat terrorism and al-Qaeda/bin Laden. You do realize that the US interest in bin Laden, his terror group, and Afghanistan predate by years the 9/11 attacks, right? And since bin Laden actually did carry out the most destructive attack in US history on US soil from his refuge in Afghanistan, and since Mullah Muhammad Omar refused to extradite him both before and after the 9/11 attacks, the US (seeking revenge and justice for, again, a horrific attack that had just happened) invaded Afghanistan. The closest thing to an actual offer to turn over bin Laden only came after US airstrikes had begun, and even that was only a proposal that bin Laden be turned over and tried by neutral Islamic states of the OIC, not that he be turned over to the US as the US demanded.

And according to your links, the claim that the Taliban were seeking to get rid of bin Laden and even offered to help the US carry out a missile strike come from someone who was effectively the Taliban's PR agent in the West, acting as their spokeswoman and ambassador and defending them, their government, and their actions! Even the link talking about how the Taliban was not happy with bin Laden and actually got into a gun battle with his bodyguards at one point still makes it really clear that "The Taliban has shown no sign that it is willing to deliver Mr. bin Laden to the United States."

So, what you need to do is provide some actual evidence that the US interest in and invasion of Afghanistan was not in response to a very real and horrific terrorist attack carried out by a terrorist in a country that would not extradite him so the country he attacked could put him on trial, but instead was only carried out because the US wanted to build this pipeline that a dozen years later still hasn't been built and whose future and security is in doubt because no one knows who will actually keep it safe and operating once NATO troops withdraw from Afghanistan.

#2. What was the Conspiracy and how was this carried out:
Here is a recent example of this very long deception that has been carried out for two presidencies. Recently Obama’s top national security aides acknowledged that Obama had concluded in his first year that the Bush-era dream for Afghanistan was a fantasy and that it would make little difference whether a large American and NATO force remained for 2 more years, 5 more years or 10 more years so many Americans have since asked why Obama ordered the surge that has resulted in a massive spike in casualties AFTER he had already concluded success was not possible?

Actually, the recently-released information said that Obama rejected those pessimistic analyses of the Afghanistan situation and the success of the proposed surge, even ignoring his own vice-president, in order to give the US generals in Afghanistan the increased troop levels they asked for.

First Obama knew he had to flex some muscle, (at the cost of many American service members lives), with the Taliban in order to be able to bring them to the negotiating table to negotiate the best price to secure TAPI pipe line.

And has the Taliban agreed to anything, as a result of the surge? And what's to prevent the Taliban from breaking the agreement, once US forces leave?

Second the surge also helped, (at the cost of many American service members lives), to influence Pakistan in stopping the Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline and gave the US a better position to threaten and enforce sanctions with Iran.

So despite that Obama had already come to the conclusion that victory against the Taliban was not possible he knew that the surge could at least help the U.S. achieve it original goal in the geo-political energy war to secure the TAPI pipeline.

How did the surge in Afghanistan stop Pakistan from stopping the pipeline with Iran? And if Obama knew that the war in Afghanistan was hopeless and that the US presence would be irrelevant to the situation there regardless of how long troops stayed, how, exactly, would he be able to keep the pipeline protected and secure for the Shadowy Interests behind the pipeline who manipulated the US invasion into invading in the first place?

In other words, what, according to your conspiracy theory, is the plan to assuage the security concerns brought up right in the very first link in your OP?
 
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How is that "misleading"? The sources at the historycommons.org site that your OP is a virtual cut-and-paste of make it clear that the contingency plans against Afghanistan were part of the larger plan to combat terrorism and al-Qaeda/bin Laden. You do realize that the US interest in bin Laden, his terror group, and Afghanistan predate by years the 9/11 attacks, right? And since bin Laden actually did carry out the most destructive attack in US history on US soil from his refuge in Afghanistan, and since Mullah Muhammad Omar refused to extradite him both before and after the 9/11 attacks, the US (seeking revenge and justice for, again, a horrific attack that had just happened) invaded Afghanistan. The closest thing to an actual offer to turn over bin Laden only came after US airstrikes had begun, and even that was only a proposal that bin Laden be turned over and tried by neutral Islamic states of the OIC, not that he be turned over to the US as the US demanded.

And according to your links, the claim that the Taliban were seeking to get rid of bin Laden and even offered to help the US carry out a missile strike come from someone who was effectively the Taliban's PR agent in the West, acting as their spokeswoman and ambassador and defending them, their government, and their actions! Even the link talking about how the Taliban was not happy with bin Laden and actually got into a gun battle with his bodyguards at one point still makes it really clear that "The Taliban has shown no sign that it is willing to deliver Mr. bin Laden to the United States."

So, what you need to do is provide some actual evidence that the US interest in and invasion of Afghanistan was not in response to a very real and horrific terrorist attack carried out by a terrorist in a country that would not extradite him so the country he attacked could put him on trial, but instead was only carried out because the US wanted to build this pipeline that a dozen years later still hasn't been built and whose future and security is in doubt because no one knows who will actually keep it safe and operating once NATO troops withdraw from Afghanistan.

Actually, the recently-released information said that Obama rejected those pessimistic analyses of the Afghanistan situation and the success of the proposed surge, even ignoring his own vice-president, in order to give the US generals in Afghanistan the increased troop levels they asked for.

And has the Taliban agreed to anything, as a result of the surge? And what's to prevent the Taliban from breaking the agreement, once US forces leave?

How did the surge in Afghanistan stop Pakistan from stopping the pipeline with Iran? And if Obama knew that the war in Afghanistan was hopeless and that the US presence would be irrelevant to the situation there regardless of how long troops stayed, how, exactly, would he be able to keep the pipeline protected and secure for the Shadowy Interests behind the pipeline who manipulated the US invasion into invading in the first place?

In other words, what, according to your conspiracy theory, is the plan to assuage the security concerns brought up right in the very first link in your OP?

#1. Even US government officials acknowledge that Mullah Omar was negotiating with the US after 9/11 while at the same time, (when realizing the US will invade no matter what he does), was trying publicly, (that’s different than administratively), to save face and form allies with al Qaeda whom he at this point had a very tense relationship with after he had bin Laden’s body guards killed and bin laden arrested when he tried to hand bin laden over to the US.

Breach of rule 4 removed.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles
 
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Oh jesus christ. You are not doing yourself any favors by posting a huge wall of text. Are you trying to say that 9/11 was used as a justification to implement geopolitical strategy that was not entirely related to terrorism? If this is what you want to say you can do it much more succinctly.
 
Sorry, Conspiracy Killer, your post is incoherent, and reaches all over the world to prove a theory that is preposterous, and located in just ONE part of the world. You have spent just WAAAaaaaayyyyyy too much time in groups of nerds who all agree to every conspiracy theory presented. No matter how silly. There is a limit to this, ya know.
IF the war was fought for Just this pipeline, Where is it?
 
ConspiracyKiller, this was almost interesting...until...until...you started acting like a like a butt-naked crazy conspiracy whack job. And in case you haven't figured out what I mean by this, let me tell ya'...it's that thing that every calls the 'Wall of Text'. I thought you got the message, but clearly I was wrong. I've been on this forum for several years and the Wall of Text cut & paste from some other website is a surefire sign that someone is a conspiracy nutter. I don't think you want that label. Can't you talk about this without a post so long that no one except your mother would read it? Can't you write a lot of words without copying them from another website? You know, in school, that would be plagiarism and they're do something bad to you. This is the JREF. Here you just ignored. And nobody wants that. We all just want to be your friend.

 
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Thing is, the Iranian part of IP is already build and with the comical corruption of the Pakistani political class, it's not unlikely that soon they will have a president who doesn't give a **** about Hillary's pathetic bullying. And even if they finally manage to set up TAPI, they'll have to convince the T to give up the contracts they made with the big R in the north, while the US was failing in their wars of aggression. Otherwise it will remain empty.

The Empire will end up putting the whole world on their sanctions list, and then some.

News from Pipelineistan

Conspiracy existed, conspiracy failed to reach goals, conspiracy deniers say "see, nothing happened, it was about freedom and democracy and that guy Osama" ;)
 
#1. What was misleading:
Americans were not told that the U.S. had already been planning on invading Afghanistan before 9/11 happened and therefore Americans were intentionally mislead into believing that the invasion of Afghanistan was an unplanned invasion solely in response to 9/11 in order to capture Osama bin laden because the Taliban refused, (which also is not true), to hand bin laden over...
Oh boy.

1. No one claimed the US invasion was unplanned. You can't just drop a few thousand men and metal into a country without a plan. Even if there were plans to invade Afghanistan, they might not have been anything other than plans, and they certainly weren't for the same reason.
2. The Taliban refused to hand over Bin Laden multiple times before and after 9/11, despite UN resolutions telling them to cough him up. They initially offered only a qualified handover, asking that OBL be tried in a Muslim court (read, a kangaroo court), and only offered to just hand him over when the Coalition was on their doorstep wearing big stompy boots.
 
Oh jesus christ. You are not doing yourself any favors by posting a huge wall of text. Are you trying to say that 9/11 was used as a justification to implement geopolitical strategy that was not entirely related to terrorism? If this is what you want to say you can do it much more succinctly.

As a general rule, I find that people who cannot summarize their points can't really understand them.
 

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