General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Dogzilla said:
If you think it's significant that I can't tell you where the missing Jews went, be aware that I can't tell you where the surviving Jews went either. So are all the Jews dead?
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Are you familiar with the logical fallacy, "Argument from Ignorance?"
 
Nick Terry said:
Your talent for failing to get the point never ceases to amaze me. Here is a rough summary of the 'conversation' as it has been repeated umpteen times since the summer of 2010 when you showed up here:

1. Accepted history: 5 to 6 million European Jews were murdered in a genocide by the Nazis and their allies by a combination of methods including gas chambers killing 2-3 million.

2. Dogzilla: no they weren't. Zisblatt blah blah there were no gas chambers.

3. Puzzled skeptic: so what happened to them then?

4. Dogzilla: I don't know.

5. Annoyed skeptic: sod off then.

As long as your answer in stage #4 is 'I don't know', then you have not laid a dent on stage #1, end of story.
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Which neatly explains why this thread is in the Conspiracy Theories section and not in History, Literature, and the Arts.
 
Do the math. 3 million Jewish people arrived at the "camps" in 3 years to be gassed.

83,333 a month. Where were they staged?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Sorry. I'm not explaining basic terms.:p
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You do understand that "staged" has at least three meanings in idiomatic American English, right?

"Staged" can mean "gathered prior to a movement."

"Staged" can also mean "faked up with paid actors."

(And "Staged" can also mean having stages, like a Saturn V stack, but that one is pretty unlikely in this context.)
 
Clayton Moore said:
Do the math. 3 million Jewish people arrived at the "camps" in 3 years to be gassed. 83,333 a month. Where were they staged?
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Hi Clayton. Now that you are reaching high school you are naturally asking grown ups all kinds of questions before you read your first book (not issued by DC Comics) Let us help you...

Treblinka II had 713,555 executed in it before 30Dec1942 on it's own! The Germans themselves, wrote this in the Hofle Telegram. You may even read the answer to your really stupid question......in a book.....or just Wikipedia if that's your top skill level goal...

Before Operation Reinhard, over half a million Jews had been killed by the Einsatzgruppen, mobile extermination units, in territories conquered by the German army. It became evident, however, that they could not handle the millions of Jews that they had concentrated in the ghettos of occupied countries. So Treblinka, along with the other Operation Reinhard camps, were especially designed for the rapid elimination of the Jews in ghettos
Clayton Moore said:
Which 83,333 would it be noticed that Jewish people were missing?
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Hi again Clayton. Well as the Allies warned the nasty Germans to stop knocking off Jews in November 1942 or face war crime trials, you can guess that the Jewish people, were aware before that date. Considering this has been discusses in detail many times in this thread you may want to practice reading for a bit longer before attempting to read a whole book.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Do the math. 3 million Jewish people arrived at the "camps" in 3 years to be gassed.

83,333 a month. Where were they staged?
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Staged? You mean in places like Drancy, Kazerne Dossin, Joodse Schouwburg. Vught, Westerbork ... ?
or
Siedlce, Izbiza, Łódź, Radom, Warsaw... ?
or
Orchówek, Wolka Okraglik ... ?

Or staged as in where was the Hoax performed? Where did hoaxers stage displays for onlookers?

Why won't you explain basic terms. You make no sense.

What were the synagogues used for, prior to Nazi invasion?
Why do Jewish cemeteries have few if any headstones added with dates after 1939 - while you can go back many generations by reading the older ones?
...?
You -collectively and individually - make no sense.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Do the math. 3 million Jewish people arrived at the "camps" in 3 years to be gassed.

83,333 a month. Where were they staged?
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Well, Clayton, if you actually knew anything about the history, then you'd know that in France, to take one example, Jews were arrested in large numbers in 1941 and interned in camps in France, then they began to be deported in the spring of 1942 to Auschwitz. At first they were registered 100% because the first transports to Auschwitz were used as labourers to build up the camps; these transports consisted of entirely able bodied men and women.

Then in July 1942 there were more mass roundups in Paris, with 1000s being held first in a sports stadium (the Vel d'Hiv), and then transferred to Drancy, which became the main transit camp in France. They were then deported to Auschwitz in a series of transports and selected on arrival, with the able bodied being registered into the camp, and tattooed, and those unfit for work being gassed.

By the end of 1942, the Korherr report tells us that a total of 41,911 Jews had been deported from France, out of an estimated population of 300,000. The remaining quarter of a million had largely gone to ground or were trying to flee across the Swiss and Spanish borders, or into the Italian-occupied zone of the south of France, since the Italians were not deporting Jews.

Over the course of 1943 and the first nine months of 1944, a further 35,000 or so Jews were caught in France, in what was a more slow-going process for the Nazis because the intended victims were indeed alert and suspicious, but the majority avoided capture. The 35,000 Jews, other than a few transports sent to Sobibor and Majdanek in early 1943, were deported to Auschwitz, where they were invariably selected on arrival, with the able bodied registered and the unfit gassed. Total, 75,000 deported. Of the deportees, only 2,000 returned at the end of the war. The rest died, either by being gassed on arrival, dying in concentration camps or being selected inside Auschwitz after registration for gassing if they had become too sick or too weak to work any more.

That is the accepted account of the Holocaust in France, one of more than 20 countries affected by Nazi policies towards Jews.

In the same time-frame, the Nazis also captured 86,000 members of the French resistance who were then deported to concentration camps in Germany. They also executed about 20,000 people in France, of whom more than 1,000 were Jews. They further conscripted nearly 1 million French workers and transferred 1.6 million French prisoners of war for work in Germany.

None of these Frenchmen and Frenchwomen wanted to be deported, and we find that, non-Jews were deported at a rate up to 35 times the number that Jews were deported.

^
that's a mere 456 words, summarising data which is all over the internet and written up in massive detail in thousands of books. Yet you'll complain the answer was too long, or ignore it, or change the subject.
 
Bluespaceoddity said:
What were the synagogues used for, prior to Nazi invasion?
Why do Jewish cemeteries have few if any headstones added with dates after 1939 - while you can go back many generations by reading the older ones?
...?
You -collectively and individually - make no sense.
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Well, these are certainly puzzlers at first. But not when you consider that Dogzilla didn't say that Jews never lived there, in Europe. What he wrote, word for word, is this:
So there's the last scenario. This is the one that puts all the pieces of the puzzle together and, given the current state of knowledge, is the best:

3) Those people were never there.
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Whoops. Maybe Mr Moore has it better than Dogzilla, and these synagogues and cemeteries were "staged" in the theatrical sense? I'll bet these guys are really wishing LGR were still here to come up with something to get them out of the jam they've created for themselves. E.g., about now LGR would misquote or misdate a document, a technique that presumes one knows of a document, which, obviously, is beyond this duo.
 
Nick Terry said:
^
that's a mere 456 words, summarising data which is all over the internet and written up in massive detail in thousands of books. Yet you'll complain the answer was too long, or ignore it, or change the subject.
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Thanks, Nick, but you missed that this thread is no longer the HD thread. It's now a crappy comedy thread where we post one-liners and occasionally longer jokes. The punch line to yours is one of two that serve all purpose duty:

Forest fires?

In the 1940s how do you stop forest fires from burning everything in sight including the camps?
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or

So there's the last scenario. This is the one that puts all the pieces of the puzzle together and, given the current state of knowledge, is the best:

3) Those people were never there.
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For your post on deportations from France, which deals with mostly urban settings, I'd go with "Those people were never there." Your choice, of course.

When we get tired of goofing on each other, Dogzilla tells us about his favorite episodes of Gilligan's Island. Sure as heck beats reading a book on forced labor, anything that describes the fates of individual Jews, sounding out the words of the Jaeger report, or trying to follow what became of Jews in Nazi occupied cities.
 
Cyrix686 said:
Pity, because a functionalist, intentionalist discussion would be more interesting than pretending there were no Jews to find a solution for in the first place and then following ALL that entails.
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Presuming he actually had one . . . it couldn't help being more interesting than the latest.

Cyrix686 said:
You've met your, "It was dated early September, it was not dated at all," moment Dogzilla.
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Just wait til you see his case . . . which reminds me, we never did get to see the case against OSR 24, did we? Kind of like Dogzilla and . . . , er, everything.
 
Dogzilla said:
It would be either the Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews or they did not want to kill all the Jews true dichotomy. Unfortunately for Team holocaust, the argument is that the Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews except for the Jews they didn't want to kill. But they wanted to kill all the Jews. Trying to make that argument is one of the reasons you work yourself into a dizzy playing whack-a-mole with the facts and why your narrative sounds more and more Ptolemaic with the extermination of the Jews at the center of the universe.
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If someone says that they want to own all the movies in the world on DVD, does that means that they don't really mean that or didn't complete their collection if they didn't succeed right away ?
 
Dogzilla said:
It would be either the Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews or they did not want to kill all the Jews true dichotomy. Unfortunately for Team holocaust, the argument is that the Nazis wanted to kill all the Jews except for the Jews they didn't want to kill. But they wanted to kill all the Jews. Trying to make that argument is one of the reasons you work yourself into a dizzy playing whack-a-mole with the facts and why your narrative sounds more and more Ptolemaic with the extermination of the Jews at the center of the universe.
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The reality of what was wanted and what happened is way more complicated than your very simple argument.

Hitler and other National Socialists made it clear before the War that they did not want Jews in Germany and they had some pretty crazy ideas about what to do, such as Madagascar.

Once the War starts the Nazis are now in a position to start killing Jews as well as creating ghettos, work camps and in some extreme exceptions, with Hitler's approval exempting some. Why was that? Well we have the answer in that who was Jewish needed defining so some would survive if they were considered not be Jewish after all. It was recognised that some Jews were useful and loyal to the Nazis so they could survive. It was known that not all German's are anti-semities so we have the Nazis being careful to treat some Jews with a bit more respect than others, such as WWI Iron Cross veterans. We know that some countries under Nazi control were more inclined to protect their Jews than others, so we have discrepancies there.

I for one think that your descriptive of team Holocaust claiming the Nazis wanted to kill all Jews is a simplification of the truth and is not accurate.
 
Dogzilla said:
Er...OK. So you're saying that the missing Jews either 1) survived the war or 2) were murdered by the Nazis as part of their plan to exterminate the Jews is a false dichotomy.
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The actual dichotomy is "survived or didn't". You made up a third option saying that they never existed, but it contradicts what we know, and doesn't explain some actual Jews we have today who had parents and grandparents.

Yet you believe it is somehow significant that if I don't know where the missing Jews went, then I can't know if they were murdered or not.
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That's actually not what I'm saying. If you have no idea where they went, and you know that the Nazis said they wanted to kill them, said they did, and the survivors and tons of evidence, which you claim was fabricated, says they did, how does that mesh ? My point is: you don't have a shred of evidence to discount the evidence for the holocaust.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Do the math. 3 million Jewish people arrived at the "camps" in 3 years to be gassed.

83,333 a month. Where were they staged?
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Unfortunately this line of reasoning doesn't help you. First, demonstrate that the actual evidence is false.

Otherwise I'll use the same math-salad to prove that WWII didn't happen.
 
Here we have two very unimpressive deniers. The Sceptic forum has no active deniers at all. Where have they all gone?
 
Nessie said:
Here we have two very unimpressive deniers. The Sceptic forum has no active deniers at all. Where have they all gone?
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The Cesspit, AKA CODOH, where draconian moderation prevents any of their crap being challenged.

It's the only way they can pretend to be "winning".
 
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