Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Cylinder]

Doesn't change that after investigation, the lead homicide detective who wanted to arrest him.

By the way, who was it that referred this matter to a grand jury? What happened to that referral?

 

[johnny karate]

I'm not ignoring the context or conflating anything.

The claim is that following someone is getting physically involved in the activity.

Going outside to check out noises you heard outside is getting physically involved in the suspicious activity in the same way as following someone, IMO. I find it to be a valid analogy. In the case of 'John' , though, he clearly did not get physically involved by a any reasonable definition, but was involved by Only Tells Truths definition.

In the context of police guidelines for a neighborhood watch, it makes more sense to interpret that phrase consevatively rather than assume the police are okay with people following around suspicious people.

 

[Rare Truth]

By the way, who was it that referred this matter to a grand jury? What happened to that referral?

Cause we all know that Grand Jury was planned before the Governor had to appoint a special prosecutor cause the manure hit the oscillating device when the SA said nope.

Everyone who followed the story knows what a cluster **** that was.

You're not fooling anyone.

 

[Unabogie]

This interview is really interesting. George "like to get involved". There was some incident with someone "spitting in his car" and something with "televisions".

He's a really trippy guy. He sees himself as a do-gooder. He wanted to "make a difference", yet as Serino notes, he's a blank slate in regards to the fact that he just shot someone.

 

[bookworm]

Holy crap, that actually makes sense to you? It's clear I'm arguing with someone whose beliefs regarding this case approach quasi-religious status. Just as a young earth creationist will wildly misinterpret well-understood geologic formations to fit his beliefs, you (and several others here) resort to a bizarre definition of a well-understood term to shoehorn it into your belief system.

Good luck with that!

Sorry - that was sarcasm. I forgot the

 

[bookworm]

Actually, calling on the phone to make reservations at the bar, would seem to fall into the category of 'initiated' according to some of the legal experts here... and thus deprive you of the right to save your own life later.

Well, according to some, it doesn't matter if TM was banging his head on the ground, he got out of his truck and followed him so it's his own fault. Just like the guy who gets attacked checking out noise on his patio is at fault if he kills the guy who's attacking him. He should have used his head and stayed in the house.

 

[Unabogie]

Here's another tidbit, from part 3 towards the beginning. The first address given is NOT 1440, it's 111 Retreat View Circle, Sanford, FL. Google that, and then explain where that fits into George's narrative?

 

[Dancing David]

You should try to listen to Zimmerman's reenactment, they really don't square up with his own police call very well at all, as Uniboogie noted. Among other things, we never hear the responder tell him to move his car, and we never hear Zimmerman move his car, which he says happened. He claims in his reenactment that Martin ducks between the rows of houses, but then comes back, circles his car, and then runs off again, at which point Zimmerman exits his vehicle. But in his police call, he states that Martin is near the clubhouse, and that he walks by him and starts running, and *this* is when Zimmerman exits his vehicle. I can't think of any way to reconcile these, and apparently neither could Zimmerman.

Then there's the first attack, which in one version knocks him straight back (and away from the fight scene), but in another causes him to stumble around.

And as Serino said, a person whose had their head bashed against concrete shouldn't just be walking around a second later, and a person who is being suffocated can't scream. Combine with that the canned dialogue, and the supposedly freakish behavior that he ascribed to Martin. The running back and forth, the car circling, the mysterious reappearance and homicidal rage, the movie dialogue. The simple fact is, he can tell his story consistently as much as he wants, but it doesn't match much of anything, and it simply makes no sense.

Sheesh! I had thought that maybe his reenactments were being distorted through word of mouth, but it turns out, folks were repeating him accurately - even his own father's early press release stating that Zimmerman never followed Martin.

Thanks

 

[Unabogie]

Yeah, the detectives notice the same discrepancy as I did about the NEN call and the walkthrough. George claims that the circling of the car happened while he was still at the clubhouse. But in the walkthrough, he tells a completely different version. Anyone care to explain that?

 

[Dancing David]

If we go by the current standard here, then any person who hears noises coming from their back porch, looks out the window and sees nothing, then goes outside to check it out and gets attacked - is asking for trouble and should go to prison if they end up killing their attacker.

I would love to see the defense team make that claim, of course they won't. Even lawyers avoid such obvious over stretches in a court room.

Perhaps leaving your car and walking a distance does not equate to stepping on the back porch.

 

[Rare Truth]

This interview is really interesting. George "like to get involved". There was some incident with someone "spitting in his car" and something with "televisions".

He's a really trippy guy. He sees himself as a do-gooder. He wanted to "make a difference", yet as Serino notes, he's a blank slate in regards to the fact that he just shot someone.

Yup.


Another thing that was glaring. Recall his Witness Stand apology:



De La Rionda drove it home immediately, right after his "apology" : Did you express remorse?
(listen to the above video for exacts)

GZ: I'm sure I did. In (the statements to detectives/LEO right after)

S: You're sure?

GZ: Yes.

LIAR. He never expressed ANY remorse. None.

 

[Rare Truth]

Here's another tidbit, from part 3 towards the beginning. The first address given is NOT 1440, it's 111 Retreat View Circle, Sanford, FL. Google that, and then explain where that fits into George's narrative?

Dispatch corrected him. It was 1111 - that's the clubhouse.

 

[Unabogie]

Yup.


Another thing that was glaring. Recall his Witness Stand apology:



De La Rionda drove it home immediately, right after his "apology" : Did you express remorse?
(listen to the above video for exacts)

GZ: I'm sure I did. In (the statements to detectives/LEO right after)

S: You're sure?

GZ: Yes.

LIAR. He never expressed ANY remorse. None.

Is that the right video?

 

[bookworm]

I would love to see the defense team make that claim, of course they won't. Even lawyers avoid such obvious over stretches in a court room.

Perhaps leaving your car and walking a distance does not equate to stepping on the back porch.

My post was in the context of what constitutes "initiating contact."

 

[Rare Truth]

Originally Posted by bookworm
If we go by the current standard here, then any person who hears noises coming from their back porch, looks out the window and sees nothing, then goes outside to check it out and gets attacked - is asking for trouble and should go to prison if they end up killing their attacker.

How many more strawmen are you intent on erecting here?

 

[Unabogie]

84 seconds from the point where George claims he was walking back to his car. It's about 30 feet. 1 minute, twenty seconds and George only gets to the T. But he claims he was walking back the whole time. When asked why he took so long, he says he didn't want to walk back without light. But yet he claims he was walking back to his car. It makes no sense.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?_r=3&hp

Part 3, around the 9:00 mark.

 

[bookworm]

Well, I'm still processing alot of things, but here is where I am now. Either:

1. Zimmerman bears more responsibility than I initially thought. I don't think I'll go so far as to say I think he started the fight, but I MAY come around to thinking he's more responsible for what happened. I think it's possible there was more before he was hit and knocked down.

OR

2. Zimmerman was telling the truth about what happened, except maybe TM approached him and shoved him and they scuffled and ran a little before TM punched him and knocked him down. If this happened, possibly Z was afraid it would look like a mutual fight and tried to play it down, thereby causing inconsistencies in his story.

 

[bookworm]

How many more strawmen are you intent on erecting here?

Eh....I dunno

 

[Rare Truth]

Is that the right video?

OOOps. Corrected.



Sorry 'bout that. </sticky c&p>

 

[Unabogie]

Q: Did you pursue this kid? Did you want to catch him?

A: No (chuckles)

6:00 mark on part3.

Anyone believe that? After saying "*********** punks" who "******** always get away", "****, he's running", "are you following him? Yeah", he says no, he didn't want to catch him?

This guy is toast.