Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[This is The End]

I'm not saying that Jeralyn Merritt is specifically biased, but wouldn't a defense attorney have a tendency to be more, you know, defense attorney minded?

 

[crimresearch]

I understand that your laws might allow claiming self-defense even if the person doing so has initiated the fight.

To me personally that just seems wrong.

Ok, but that's personal feelings.

As far as laws go, it a standard premise in many countries.

'He started it, so I killed him' went out with the Code Duello.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The pictures of his actual injuries have been posted here over and over, and your 'pop up blocker' nonsense is a farcical smokescreen.
You've pulled this 'I can't see that, so that proves it doesn't exist' gambit so many times, it can't be believed.....

You must be reading a different thread than I am. I am not contesting his injuries. I discussed the mechanism (TM punching once) that would result in all the injuries GZ had.

I am contesting the claim he was pummeled. Besides the scrapes on his head, are that any pictures that match what a person who actually has been pummeled looks like?


BTW, are you still denying you got the passport thing wrong or have you admitted that error yet?

 

[LTC8K6]

You must be reading a different thread than I am. I am not contesting his injuries. I discussed the mechanism (TM punching once) that would result in all the injuries GZ had.

I am contesting the claim he was pummeled. Besides the scrapes on his head, are that any pictures that match what a person who actually has been pummeled looks like?


BTW, are you still denying you got the passport thing wrong or have you admitted that error yet?

Opinions are not facts. You can't just state them as if they are.

You think GZ's injuries are insignificant.

Fine.

Others think they aren't.

That's that.

One of these opinions is backed up by evidence.

The other one is not.

You can't just insert "pummeled" and "scrapes" and get away with it, either.

 

[Amazer]

Ok, but that's personal feelings.

As far as laws go, it a standard premise in many countries.

'He started it, so I killed him' went out with the Code Duello.

I take more issue with the 'I started it, but he took it to a whole new level.... so I killed him'.

 

[crimresearch]

You must be reading a different thread than I am. I am not contesting his injuries. I discussed the mechanism (TM punching once) that would result in all the injuries GZ had.

I am contesting the claim he was pummeled. Besides the scrapes on his head, are that any pictures that match what a person who actually has been pummeled looks like?


BTW, are you still denying you got the passport thing wrong or have you admitted that error yet?

Do you ever come up with anything new?
It has already been proven that the judge dismissed the passport issue. No amount of your denial and projection is going to make you right about that.
It has already been proven that you claimed as a medical expert, that you could view Zimmerman's head and there were no injuries. No lacerations, no blood, no broken nose. No amount of digging up unrelated pictures is going to make you right about that either.
It has already been proven that all of your ad hominems directed at people that were skeptical of the magic audio analysis was simply superstitious woo, debunked by real experts. There is nothng you can spin that will alter that reality.

This isn't a one time deal, this is the norm in every thread that you try to drag down to AAH.
You're on your own on this one.

 

[LTC8K6]

Are you sure about that?

Why do I remember something about "unless while committing a felony"?

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Bolding mine.

Are you saying that you think that it does not sound like Z was running in the not911 call? Really??

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I've heard that it's GZ running, and that it's wind noise in the mic.

How long do you think it is between the time GZ reports TM to be running, and GZ "runs" after him?

I think that TM has most likely already gone around the corner out of GZ's view. If GZ is running, it is, in my mind, only to get to a place where he can see where TM ran to, not to chase TM.

TM is already well out of range for GZ to even think about chasing, imo. GZ just hopes to see where TM disappears to, imo.

While GZ says he is following TM, I don't think he's actually anywhere near TM at all at that time.

 

[crimresearch]

I take more issue with the 'I started it, but he took it to a whole new level.... so I killed him'.

Again, that is the legal standard in most countries that I'm aware of.

"I started it by saying 'What are you doing here?'

He took it to a whole new level by punching me, and then grabbing a gun, so I killed him to keep him from shooting me first".

Now that may or may not be what actually happened with Zimmerman and Martin, but that legal premise (That you don't give up the right to defend yourself unless you are first commiting a violent felony) is pretty much the norm.

Seriously, would you have it the other way around? if someone commits a petty transgression, that gives the aggrieved party the right to kill them, and they can't fight back?

 

[This is The End]

It has already been proven that the judge dismissed the passport issue. No amount of your denial and projection is going to make you right about that.

What in the world!!

How in the world are you still saying that, lmao.

 

[This is The End]

I've heard that it's GZ running, and that it's wind noise in the mic.

How long do you think it is between the time GZ reports TM to be running, and GZ "runs" after him?

I think that TM has most likely already gone around the corner out of GZ's view. If GZ is running, it is, in my mind, only to get to a place where he can see where TM ran to, not to chase TM.

TM is already well out of range for GZ to even think about chasing, imo. GZ just hopes to see where TM disappears to, imo.

While GZ says he is following TM, I don't think he's actually anywhere near TM at all at that time.

Just to be clear.

You are saying that you are not sure if Z is walking or running from the time he gets out of the truck to the time he says "okay"?

 

[Cylinder]

You must be reading a different thread than I am. I am not contesting his injuries. I discussed the mechanism (TM punching once) that would result in all the injuries GZ had.

Right, but you didn't quite cover a mechanism of injury that accounted for mulitple injury sites. Is it your opinion that a single blow caused bruising to both sides of Zimmerman's forehead?

 

[Amazer]

Again, that is the legal standard in most countries that I'm aware of.

"I started it by saying 'What are you doing here?'

He took it to a whole new level by punching me, and then grabbing a gun, so I killed him to keep him from shooting me first".

Now that may or may not be what actually happened with Zimmerman and Martin, but that legal premise (That you don't give up the right to defend yourself unless you are first commiting a violent felony) is pretty much the norm.

Seriously, would you have it the other way around? if someone commits a petty transgression, that gives the aggrieved party the right to kill them, and they can't fight back?

I think that I might have failed to express myself clearly.

In itself I don't object to the right to defend yourself as per the example provided above. I do however think the person initiated the fight shouldn't be allowed to just walk free either.

 

[LTC8K6]

Just to be clear.

You are saying that you are not sure if Z is walking or running from the time he gets out of the truck to the time he says "okay"?

I am not sure.

It doesn't matter to me, though. I consider it irrelevant at this time.

If more info comes in about exactly what occurred and when, it could become relevant.

For instance, GZ might have told the police that he started running after TM.

 

[LTC8K6]

I think that I might have failed to express myself clearly.

In itself I don't object to the right to defend yourself as per the example provided above. I do however think the person initiated the fight shouldn't be allowed to just walk free either.

Well, quite a few here think GZ shouldn't walk free, or be charged with murder 2, but something in between.

Which may very well happen.

 

[johnny karate]

Right, but you didn't quite cover a mechanism of injury that accounted for mulitple injury sites. Is it your opinion that a single blow caused bruising to both sides of Zimmerman's forehead?

What bruising are you talking about?

Because I don't see any in this photo. Nor do I recall any such bruising indicated in the medical documentation.

 

[Cylinder]

What bruising are you talking about?

Because I don't see any in this photo. Nor do I recall any such bruising indicated in the medical documentation.

"Pt. has abrasions to his forehead..."

SFD Resuce report

 

[This is The End]

[qimg]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6289/headright.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1962/headleft.jpg[/qimg]



"Pt. has abrasions to his forehead..."

SFD Resuce report

I'm confused.

Are you saying that abrasions are the same thing as bruising?

I thought those were 2 completely different things.

 

[Cylinder]

I don't know how many superficial injuries would be enough to cause severe bodily injury. I'm not a doctor. I also don't know how many paper cuts would cause someone to bleed to death.

So you assert that Zimmerman could have suffered an indefinite amount of head injuries of that thype without suffering great bodily injury? Would 10 more be safe?

I do know that the injuries Zimmerman sustained were described in medical reports as minor...

Minor bleeding. That's a medical report, you can't change descriptions like that. Of course, we know by the photo that the paramedic failed to document another laceration to his head (the circular one) and presumably some disturbing swelling at the base of his skull, though the swelling could have presented after the assessment.

...and that he wasn't diagnosed with a concussion or any other severe head trauma.

No one claimed that.

Which strikes me as odd since he was supposedly getting the crap beat out of him and having his head repeatedly bashed onto the pavement.

Luckily we have a record of the injuries as well as an eyewitness who reports Martin on top of Zimmerman "fighting" and another who reports the same with Martin either hitting or restraining Zimmerman on concrete. That's a very specific claim by Zimmerman and very specific eyewitness statement. You either have to throw W6 on the Conspiracy Train or admit that a substantial point in Zimmerman's narrative is a fact beyond change.

 

[Cylinder]

I'm confused.

Are you saying that abrasions are the same thing as bruising?

I thought those were 2 completely different things.

They could be abrasions. I was focused on sites of injury. I don't know if the photos I have are of suffecient resolution to reliably make very fine distinctions.

 

[LTC8K6]

Not sure how long it was before those pics were taken vs how long it takes for a bruise to show up. The black eyes are just beginning to show.

He might have looked a lot worse for wear the next day.