Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

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No, you didn't.

You reacted emotionally to it. Why not cut the emotion and re-examine the linked studies more carefully.


Because it is reasonable for your audience to assume you were putting your best foot forward in your abstract. If your first post on the subject turns out to consist of fecal matter, as was true in this case, then it is unreasonable for you to berate your audience for assuming the linked materials are unlikely to be much more appetizing than your advertisement for them.

That is especially true when someone has a long and well-documented history of blowing smoke.

This is the same way you reacted to the earlier Femr2 measurements on WTC7. All passion. All hate.


You appear to inhabit some alternative reality. Although I may have been properly skeptical at times, I have never had much of a problem with femr2's measurements. As I have stated on several occasions, I believe his data extraction has been better than NIST's.

I have been less impressed by his data analysis, and I have been particularly unimpressed by his inability to agree with mathematical statements that are even less subjective than the color of the sky.

One of the reasons I'm stipulating both of those facts here is that full discussion of femr2's triumphs and failures would be off-topic for this thread. If you disagree with either of the facts I've just stipulated, please say so and provide evidence to support your disagreement.
 
That is especially true when someone has a long and well-documented history of blowing smoke.

The same information is being presented right now in the thread I started.

Again, why not focus on the physical objects under study and less on the neurosis?


The analysis is so much more interesting than the hate. You never seem to get to any mappings of the objects under study within the obsession of attacking those offering the material.
 
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Can't relate to all the baggage. Can we stick to observation and measurement?

Only if you promise to have a point sometime in the NEAR future.

(Point in this case meaning CONCLUSION)

Are you at all even close to preparing a conclusion?
 
If memory serves, didn't Purdue also note that NIST underestimated the damage (after their study)?

Everybody noted that -- Purdue, Northwestern, MIT, Arup, everybody. NIST's is the most conservative of all the professional WTC collapse studies. I noted this in my whitepaper all those years ago...

It also makes sense if you comprehend the purpose of the NIST investigation. Their project was not, as Truthers still cannot fathom, an attempt to "explain the unexplainable" or to construct a narrative that counters wild speculation about explosives. (The notion that "NIST needs the Truth Movement," or AE911T in specific, is risible at best.) NIST's purpose, as spelled out in the National Construction Safety Team Act of 2002, was to study the disaster for the purpose of making recommendations about construction standards.

When you perform this type of a study, you naturally adopt a conservative tone. It does no good to make recommendations about effects that "might possibly" have happened, or to base conclusions on unsupported assumptions. This distinguishes the NIST study from others, looking to evaluate possible mechanisms (e.g., U Maryland) or come up with a "best guess" reconstruction (as in Purdue). So as a result, NIST is demonstrably conservative in several dimensions. Its estimate of energy absorbed by the aircraft at impact is ambitious, and its estimate of fuel loading on individual workstations is surprisingly low (as noted by Dr. Wierzbicki and myself). Its estimate of combustibles in the WTC Towers is a lower estimate and thought to be well below typical norms (as Dr. Quintiere pointed out). Its inclusion of creep and system instability are understated (per Arup) and its estimate of fire spread in WTC 7 is limited to boundaries supported by observations at the perimeter.

As a result, there is room for criticism of its conclusions, but their approach nonetheless makes sense. "Criticism" by the way does not mean "make up crap about mythical explosives" or what have you -- I'm talking about professional criticism, the kind levied by Dr. Quintiere or CTBUH.

---

With respect to the impact angle of UA 175, I haven't followed the calculations leading to femr2's claim that NIST is off by seven degrees, however this strikes me as "plausible." This corresponds to about 3 sigma of discrepancy between measurements, a significant difference but not an impossible one.

What does surprise me, though, is that if NIST's estimate was off by seven degrees, I would expect to find poorer agreement between their damage simulation and the actual observed damage at the perimeter of WTC 2. In particular, the breakthrough opposite the impact. Ultimately, provided the exterior damage is a good fit, the interior damage estimate is probably decent as well.

I would suggest that there is an excluded middle possibility here -- the aircraft may have been skidding. It is possible that the orientation of the aircraft is better described by femr2's estimate, but that the actual momentum vector of the aircraft remains a good fit to NIST's.

In any case, this is not a significant enough difference to throw out NIST's result on WTC 2. Purdue varied a large number of parameters in its studies and found collapse resulted pretty much every time. NIST is not perfect, and indeed I've disagreed with it on several fine points consistently, but it is a pretty good study.
 
If you accept that NIST lied and their final report is a fraud then you are justified in not believing their FFA analysis.

But you can't have it both ways.

Do you accept that the NIST final report is a fraud?

Ok, let me make sure that I understand this post.

You believe that NIST lied, and you believe their final report is a fraud (am I correct so far?)

So, that means that everything in their report is wrong and inaccurate, right?

But, you accept as NIST has stated, that a portion of 7WTC fell at FFA for 2.25 second.

BUT, you JUST said, if you accept that NIST's analysis and final report is wrong, then you are justified in believing that their FFA portion is wrong, and you CANNOT have it both ways.

BUT, YOU DO?!?!?!?!?! How's that work?

So, we can ONLY have things one way, but the "rule" doesn't apply to you?

Am I understanding this right? Or, do you think that their analysis of the portion of collapse that fell ~FFA is wrong?

Which one is it? Do you believe that the entirety of the report is wrong? Or do you think portions are correct?

Remember, is portions are correct, you cannot claim fraud. PERIOD. YOU even made that "rule".

Pick one champ.
 
Why not try again with the links?


Because life is too short to waste too much time on things that aren't interesting, fun, or important.

The same information is being presented right now in the thread I started.

Again, why not focus on the physical objects under study and less on the neurosis?


The analysis is so much more interesting than the hate. You never seem to get to any mappings of the objects under study within the obsession of attacking those offering the material.


Once again, you are championing a false dichotomy. It is entirely possible to have no interest in a subject without hating it.

Interest is subjective. Stuff that interests you may not interest me, and vice versa. So far as I can recall, nothing you've written has turned out to be interesting to me. That's not a knock on you, nor is it a knock on me.

If you actually want people to be interested in whatever it is you're doing, however, then you might consider trying to do a better job of explaining its importance. Refusing all requests to explain the significance of your work can leave people with an impression that your work is insignificant.
 
All I care about is "is this true?" Looks to me like femr2 and others got more precision in their measurements than NIST and Chandler. Plus, 100.0000000000000% FFA would seem impossible in a collapse anyway
FFA is impossible in a "progressive collapse" and so is greater than FFA. You are saying that FFA is impossible yet greater than FFA is possible. This is not a reasonable position.

Free fall is 100% absolute. Measuring it from a video is not exact and your requiring it to be is just an excuse to deny it. Within one tenth of one percent is so close that the difference is negligible - too small to be considered. A reasonable person would accept that it was FFA.

FEMR's results are not just a little different, they are entirely different. Do you really think NIST is completely wrong, not even close? If so, then how can you have any faith in any of their analyses?

and even NIST's measurements show slight variations above and below freefall that average to FFA.
No they do not. You are refusing to accept the obvious. The data points are not precise because they are taken from a video. The "average" is the average of the data dots, NOT the acceleration. I know you are not stupid so stop pretending you don't understand that.

I stand by my "no net resistance" explanation. Michael Newman is sick of me and I'm not asking him any more NISTpicking questions.
Copout. This is not a nit picking, it's the most critical point in the report. You just don't want to hear him say that FEMR's greater than g hypothesis is absurd. Do you think he would say anything ease?

Also, I am not "blind" to or "ignoring" the column resistance question. At some point a badly bent column gets to 2% resistance.
At some point yes, but not when the columns first start to bend. The impartial engineers tole you that. The 2% is when the column has folded completely and you should be able to see that.

How that precisely dovetails with NIST estimates of timings of Phase One and Two remains an open question for me, as is the question of whether the columns mostly bent or broke at the welded connections.
In the NIST model, the columns have bent about half way and that equals ~ 20 feet. Do you think the NIST model is all wrong too?
 
Obtaining pixel data points by sampling marginal quality video, means that video errors will also be sampled and included as data points.

By eliminating the extreme data points, which averaging does, the resulting data points, and their plot, reveal the truth.

MM
 
Copout. This is not a nit picking, it's the most critical point in the report. You just don't want to hear him say that FEMR's greater than g hypothesis is absurd. Do you think he would say anything ease?

As is Silverstein's pull it, etc, etc. Everything truthers have come up with has been the most critical point to their case. However, not a single one has been presented in any form of peer review, submitted to NIST for actual changes, or past a scientific breakdown.

What that means to me is the most critical part (in whatever case it might be) is nothing more than crap.
 
Obtaining pixel data points by sampling marginal quality video, means that video errors will also be sampled and included as data points.

By eliminating the extreme data points, which averaging does, the resulting data points, and their plot, reveal the truth.

MM

You are terribly misguided as to the purpose of an average and what it accomplishes. An average is almost never "the truth". It is an AVERAGE, a representative figure. It is an abstraction of the data. Smoothing functions, by their very definition, cause data loss because any real variation in the data is lost.
 
Because life is too short to waste too much time on things that aren't interesting, fun, or important.

At last we agree.




Once again, you are championing a false dichotomy. It is entirely possible to have no interest in a subject without hating it.

Interest is subjective. Stuff that interests you may not interest me, and vice versa. So far as I can recall, nothing you've written has turned out to be interesting to me. That's not a knock on you, nor is it a knock on me.

If you actually want people to be interested in whatever it is you're doing, however, then you might consider trying to do a better job of explaining its importance. Refusing all requests to explain the significance of your work can leave people with an impression that your work is insignificant.

Not "it". Your hatred is directed toward people.

The book in the other thread has a conclusion.

I can't be any clearer.
 
NIST's purpose, as spelled out in the National Construction Safety Team Act of 2002, was to study the disaster for the purpose of making recommendations about construction standards.
Purpose of NIST report clearly stated within the NIST report.

Reviewed here:

2.2: Purpose of the NIST Reports

They cannot make it any clearer.
What is the point of your post Major_Tom?
Ryan quotes the enabling legislation which is the over-riding document. The objectives as stated by NIST are subordinate sources.

Are you suggesting the NIST statement of objectives does not meet the overriding statutory obligation?

If you are not suggesting conflict between the statutory obligation and NIST's interpretation of its role why do you make the comment?

Then, at the level of NIST's interpretation of its own responsibilities, it states its goals as:
To investigate the building construction, the materials used, and the technical conditions that contributed to the outcome of the WTC disaster.
To serve as the basis for: improvements in the way buildings are designed, constructed, maintained, and used; improved tools and guidance for industry and safety officials; recommended revisions to current codes, standards, and practices; and improved public safety.
The objectives then fall into place below those goals. Do you disagree with the goals? Do you disagree with the NIST objectives?

One obvious point not directly related to your comments is that their is no statutory obligation imposed on NIST nor anything adopted by NIST as a goal which requires NIST to respond to idiotic unsupported and unsupportable nonsense claims from conspiracy theorists.

One point relative to your often expressed concerns is referred to by Ryan M:
NIST is not perfect, and indeed I've disagreed with it on several fine points consistently, but it is a pretty good study.
Most of us would have "several fine points" where we could disagree with NIST. The important aspect being that they are "fine points" which category includes errors or differences of opinion which are insignificant or have no impact on findings.

I am aware that you do not accept that minor details may be of zero significance. I have attempted to discuss the issues of "relevance" and "significance" with you "several" times. :)
 
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