Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Dancing David]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...20120531_1_rachel-fugate-seal-media-companies

Normally adversaries, the state and defense in the George Zimmerman case agree on at least one point: Media coverage is a huge problem and key evidence should be kept from the public.

However, lawyers representing more than a dozen newspapers and television stations across the state and elsewhere argue the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is a matter of great monetary interest and monetary concern, and the public has a right to information.

missing words found in jar under front porch

 

[Dan O.]

No, it is, he said again, speculation.

But you wrote it. So you must believe it is a possibility unless you are just shoveling out straw.

It's a fairly common move among wannabe gangstas to pretend you have a gun. This is usually done to get someone to back off of you. You basically imitate reaching for a gun in your waistband. It can be seen as a threat, or as simply bragging.

GZ could be referring to such a move. GZ actually says "waist" I think.

It's more probable thai Trayvon put his hand holding his cell phone into the hoody pocket to keep the phone from getting wet in the rain. Could George actually see clearly enough in the dark to know that Trayvon's hand was in his waistband and not the hoodie pocket?

I don't think GZ ran after TM, nor do I think GZ ever intended to get anywhere near TM.

I've got a suggestion next time George doesn't want to get anywhere near a suspect: STAY IN YOUR TRUCK!

You do accept that George got out of his truck and followed Trayvon don't you? After all, George admitted at the time that was what he was doing. Do you believe George was also running while following the suspect that he said was running? Or are you still insisting that George was just walking down to the far end of the block past all those houses and through the cut to the next street just to get a number to give to the police to tell them where he was?

 

[KatieG]

missing words found in jar under front porch

I didn't write the article and please don't alter my posts. That's not what I posted.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Has anyone else noticed how Elvis rolls his eyes when he is trying to misrepresent the truth?

I am not even sure I understand what that means. What did I misrepresent and how ?

With that audio file we get the extended version of Dee-Dee's statement. It contains the same portion of the statement she made at least twice before where the altercation begins with a shove, the headset falls, she hears the grass thing and it just goes dead or shut off. But then we get the extension where she could hear a little bit that included Trayvon saying "Get off, get off" and then the phone hung up and she tried to call back but with no success.

I know about the initial recorded interview with Crump, and the interview with de la rionda i provided a link for.
Please provide evidence for the hilited portion.

There are also the two previous instances durring that store trip where Dee-Dee had to call Trayvon back and in both of those cases she said that the phone hung up. Apparently she knows the difference between the audio being suppressed and the circuit being closed and uses different terminology for the two cases.

DD can barely string a coherent sentence together. I don't understand the fantasy world you live in where she she knows the difference between the audio being suppressed and the circuit being closed and uses different terminology - she uses:

• "it just shut off" and
• "the line went dead"
• "the phone just hung up"

interchangeably . They all mean the same thing to her. The call ended.
I don't know why this is in question, or you keep trying to imply I am somehow wrong about this.

Her story, from her own mouth, is very clear. TM confronted GZ. She magically hears GZ push TM through the phone. Then, in second version of her fairy tale, she can hear "a little bit" TM saying "get off off" and then the phone hung up. <-- direct quote, her words

Now, the question is, how much time elapsed between between the initial bump and loss of audio and when she heard the "get off" and the phone hung up? That interview doesn't dig very deeply into this period but it does elicit that she was calling his name and not getting a response.

The lower limit would be the time of Trayvon's phone hanging up and the start of the first 911 call. These are hard numbers (with the limitation of T-mobile's rounding and assuming that the dispatch operator's time is accurate) so the lower limit is known though I don't have the numbers at hand. The upper limit is also known and that would be fixed by the end of George's call. There is still a fairly wide gap as i recall of several minutes between these limits.

Which is what I implied when I originally posted:

You might want to review the timeline.
About 7:12 is when Zimmerman tells the NEN operator TM is running
About 7:16 is when DD says TM confronted GZ
Hardly a few seconds....

There was a period of minutes where GZ and TM were not confronting one another that was considerably more than a few seconds. The confrontation/altercation/fight did not start until after DD heard TM confront GZ, and then the call ended, and we know what time that was, +/- 1 minute (T-Mobile rounding error as reported by t-mob users).

Please, explain to me what part of this is incorrect, I feel like I am going around in circles ....

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Court motions preview evidence public hasn't seen in George Zimmerman case

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...nce-statements

............. In a motion asking Judge Kenneth Lester to seal some evidence in the case, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda writes Zimmerman's statements "are contradictory, and are inconsistent with the physical evidence and statements of witnesses."
Michael Grieco, a Miami defense attorney and former Miami-Dade prosecutor, said Zimmerman's statements could give the state "a tool to attack his credibility" and weaken his self-defense claim..........
[..]

The witnesses are both contradictory and inconsistent with their own and each others statements.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Dee Dee heard both of them speaking over the same cell phone connection and described the difference between the two voices. The initial verbal confrontation and "push" that she heard could have happened near the tee where George lost his keys. Trayvon tries again to get home moving south down the path and George tries to detain him. This is where Trayvon would be saying "get off". When George doesn't release Trayvon, Trayvon turns around and decks him.
It's unfortunate that George wasn't rendered unconscious from that first blow until after the police arrived to arrest him.

Aside from your imagination, the evidence for the hilited part is ?

Why did GZ have his keys in hand if the plan was to hunt down and detain TM ?

Why was TM still at the tee intersection after he ran ?

When 'John' told them he was calling the police and saw TM on top of GZ, why didn't TM stop and get off GZ ?

 

[LTC8K6]

But you wrote it. So you must believe it is a possibility unless you are just shoveling out straw.



It's more probable thai Trayvon put his hand holding his cell phone into the hoody pocket to keep the phone from getting wet in the rain. Could George actually see clearly enough in the dark to know that Trayvon's hand was in his waistband and not the hoodie pocket?





I've got a suggestion next time George doesn't want to get anywhere near a suspect: STAY IN YOUR TRUCK!

You do accept that George got out of his truck and followed Trayvon don't you? After all, George admitted at the time that was what he was doing. Do you believe George was also running while following the suspect that he said was running? Or are you still insisting that George was just walking down to the far end of the block past all those houses and through the cut to the next street just to get a number to give to the police to tell them where he was?

There are lots of possibilities in this case. Undoubtedly including some things none of us thought of yet. I think when we hear Corey's theory of what happened, we will all cock our heads like Nipper.

I think GZ knows exactly what he is saying when he says "waist". He does not say pocket.

I accept that GZ said he was following TM, and that he quit when the dispatcher suggested it. I don't think I would term it "following", even though GZ used that term. I accept that TM had run away and was long gone from the truck.

I think GZ had every right to get out of his truck and either get a house number or see if he could still see TM anywhere. I think telling GZ he should have stayed in his truck is silly. The dispatcher twice asked GZ to let them know about TM. GZ can do that without following TM.

I think jurors will see the "stay in his truck" line as silly in Serino's capias request.

I think jurors will wonder how we can have both manslaughter and murder 2 recommendations with basically the same evidence and the same investigations. And then wonder why Serino was so sure that GZ's story matched the evidence.

 

[bookworm]

I just hope he ends up with fair impartial jurors who will look at the evidence and will be able to think logically.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

In a motion seeking to have the documents sealed, Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda argued that their release "will result in … an inability to seat a fair and impartial jury in Seminole County."

The media companies — including the Orlando Sentinel, The Miami Herald, The New York Times and CBS News — argue there's no evidence of that.

You just gotta love the media. I mean, what possible evidence is there that they could in any way affect this case?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

I just hope he ends up with fair impartial jurors who will look at the evidence and will be able to think logically.

Yep, and I hope to God they don't focus on irrelevant things like what the forensic evidences supports, who attacked who, who was getting beaten, who was screaming for help, whether GZ ever intended to get close to TM, or any other nonsense like that. Instead I hope they focus on the single relevant fact - "yo b*****, why'd you get outta da car?"

 

[bookworm]

Yep, and I hope to God they don't focus on irrelevant things like what the forensic evidences supports, who attacked who, who was getting beaten, who was screaming for help, whether GZ ever intended to get close to TM, or any other nonsense like that. Instead I hope they focus on the single relevant fact - "yo b*****, why'd you get outta da car?"

That's what I'm worried about. They'll be focusing on things Zimmerman did that were in no way illegal and give a verdict based on emotion instead of facts and evidence. And that's exactly what the prosecution is shooting for....just like another recently famous wrongful conviction.

 

[Dan O.]

There was a period of minutes where GZ and TM were not confronting one another that was considerably more than a few seconds. The confrontation/altercation/fight did not start until after DD heard TM confront GZ, and then the call ended, and we know what time that was, +/- 1 minute (T-Mobile rounding error as reported by t-mob users).

Please, explain to me what part of this is incorrect, I feel like I am going around in circles ....

Why don't you fill in the timeline for event that are evidenced to have occured in those minutes. How long does it take George to get out of his truck? How long does it take George to run/walk the full length of the block to reach the cut-through? How long does it take George to cross the cut to reach the next street? How long does George stay on Retrete View Circle looking for Trayvon/a house number? How long does it take George to walk back to the tee? How long does Trayvon wait for George to move on before initiating the verbal confrontation? How long does the verbal confrontation last before the first shove that Dee Dee reports? How long does the ensuing physical confrontation last where Dee Dee reports hearing Trayvon say "get off, get off" before the phone connection is cut off/hung up?

Once you've put in realistic estimates with upper and lower bounds for these times we can look at and evaluate whatever the hell the claim you are trying to make is. Otherwise, yes, you are just running around in circles.

 

[GWCarver]

In a motion seeking to have the documents sealed, Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda argued that their release "will result in … an inability to seat a fair and impartial jury in Seminole County."

I don't think de la Rionda actually means this. Betcha if all of the evidence is released and the case should come to trial, in response to O'Mara's request for a change of venue, de la Rionda will stand in front of the judge and state with complete confidence the state will have no problem finding an impartial jury in Seminole County.

 

[bookworm]

Since DeeDee only decided after a couple interviews that she heard TM saying "get off, get off", I don't think it's fair to consider that a fact.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Why don't you fill in the timeline for event that are evidenced to have occured in those minutes. How long does it take George to get out of his truck? How long does it take George to run/walk the full length of the block to reach the cut-through? How long does it take George to cross the cut to reach the next street? How long does George stay on Retrete View Circle looking for Trayvon/a house number? How long does it take George to walk back to the tee? How long does Trayvon wait for George to move on before initiating the verbal confrontation? How long does the verbal confrontation last before the first shove that Dee Dee reports? How long does the ensuing physical confrontation last where Dee Dee reports hearing Trayvon say "get off, get off" before the phone connection is cut off/hung up?

Once you've put in realistic estimates with upper and lower bounds for these times we can look at and evaluate whatever the hell the claim you are trying to make is. Otherwise, yes, you are just running around in circles.

You failed to explain or provide any evidence for how I was "trying to misrepresent the truth"
You failed to provide evidence for your claims about about DeeDees statements.
You failed to explain what part of my post was not correct.
As to the hilited part, I have already re-posted my original claim in the post you responded to.

Sorry, but this is not fun or interesting. When you want to actually address my posts, maybe then we can resume.

 

[Dan O.]

I think jurors will wonder how we can have both manslaughter and murder 2 recommendations with basically the same evidence and the same investigations. And then wonder why Serino was so sure that GZ's story matched the evidence.

It really doesn't matter what you think or what the jurors think. George has made the message abundantly clear. The next time some minority kid is being followed by a wannabe cop white prick packing a gun and that kid feels he needs to deck the prick, he's going to take the gun and shoot that prick dead in self defense. George has shown that if you don't kill pricks first, they are going to kill you.

My hope is that the trial will deescalate the situation by showing conclusively that there is real evidence that George acted appropriately in self defense or that George is found guilty and punished severly to send the clear message to the other wannabe cop pricks out there:

"Stay in your damn truck and let the real cops do their job!"​

 

[GWCarver]

Since DeeDee only decided after a couple interviews that she heard TM saying "get off, get off", I don't think it's fair to consider that a fact.

Yep, that little blurb added everything the prosecution needs to say Z was on top and TM was on the bottom screaming for his life.

However, I think it is a big problem for Corey. It seems so obviously manufactured that it presents a big problem with putting DeeDee on the stand. I think it will also call into question the ethics of everyone involved in acquiring that statement.

 

[Dan O.]

Since DeeDee only decided after a couple interviews that she heard TM saying "get off, get off", I don't think it's fair to consider that a fact.

Will you hold the same attitude When George adds new details to his testimony that weren't in his original police statement (which the prosecution already claims is inconsistent with the evidence)? Dee Dee's addition of the "get off" is consistent with the extended debris field. George's claim of being surprised from behind and going down on the first punch is not.

 

[bookworm]

Yep, that little blurb added everything the prosecution needs to say Z was on top and TM was on the bottom screaming for his life.

However, I think it is a big problem for Corey. It seems so obviously manufactured that it presents a big problem with putting DeeDee on the stand. I think it will also call into question the ethics of everyone involved in acquiring that statement.

Yes, I can just hear the interview:

Warning - Speculation Alert
"Alright, DeeDee, you want Trayvon's killer to be punished don't you? You're going to have to help us out a little here...try harder to remember if you heard ANYTHING else......."

 

[Dan O.]

Yep, that little blurb added everything the prosecution needs to say Z was on top and TM was on the bottom screaming for his life.

is that what the prosecution is going to claim?