Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[GWCarver]

You're probably already aware, but what's important when speaking to ranges is that the FDLE Firearms Lab - who ran tests with Martin's clothing and Zimmerman's weapon, magazine and ammunition - determined contact range. The ME determined intermediate range based on experience but not actual testing. Any claim that places the range over an inch or so has to explain the FDLE finding. For that reason, I use the term near-contact.

Investigator Gilbreath also described it as "near contact" at the bond hearing when answering a question from the judge.

 

[LTC8K6]

Hopefully today's discovery dump will shed more light on things.

 

[Cylinder]

Hopefully today's discovery dump will shed more light on things.

Yea, what I want to see is the state's reconstruction report.

 

[KatieG]

Photo of "Afro-Peruvian" great grandfather is in fact, a photo taken at the Gildemiester plantation during RWZ's visit to Peru.

Gildemiester Plantation [CasaGrande] in Peru. Gildemiester family are WEALTHY slave owners with tentacles worldwide.

Still pissed as hell the way Mark Nejame and the rest of Team Zim were touting George as some sort of saint for "mentoring" poor, underprivileged black youth, while all along it was something he was REQUIRED to do in order to beat the rap for assaulting a black police officer.


Seen on Twitter feeds today. No info about their veracity but I am looking for actual links.

 

[Dan O.]

I am relying on the preferred meaning. In the vernacular, "it just shut off" and "the line went dead" are both synonyms for the call ended, not whatever crazy set of circumstances you believe happened.

Additionally, when talking to State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda, DD says at 13:12 "then the phone just hung up"
http://media2.abcactionnews.com/html/zimmermanevidence/audio/W8_SAO4%2004022012.wav
Just in case there was any question what exactly "it just shut off" and "the line went dead" meant.

Has anyone else noticed how Elvis rolls his eyes when he is trying to misrepresent the truth?

With that audio file we get the extended version of Dee-Dee's statement. It contains the same portion of the statement she made at least twice before where the altercation begins with a shove, the headset falls, she hears the grass thing and it just goes dead or shut off. But then we get the extension where she could hear a little bit that included Trayvon saying "Get off, get off" and then the phone hung up and she tried to call back but with no success.


There are also the two previous instances durring that store trip where Dee-Dee had to call Trayvon back and in both of those cases she said that the phone hung up. Apparently she knows the difference between the audio being suppressed and the circuit being closed and uses different terminology for the two cases.

Now, the question is, how much time elapsed between between the initial bump and loss of audio and when she heard the "get off" and the phone hung up? That interview doesn't dig very deeply into this period but it does elicit that she was calling his name and not getting a response.

So it seems we have set a lower limit on the confrontation, approx 1 minute before the 911 calls started coming in.

The lower limit would be the time of Trayvon's phone hanging up and the start of the first 911 call. These are hard numbers (with the limitation of T-mobile's rounding and assuming that the dispatch operator's time is accurate) so the lower limit is known though I don't have the numbers at hand. The upper limit is also known and that would be fixed by the end of George's call. There is still a fairly wide gap as i recall of several minutes between these limits.



Something else brought up in that audio is that Trayvon could see George watching him and on the phone while he was still at the mail boxes. That moves George's car substantially closer to the mailboxes and probably near the corner. To avoid walking on the grass at that location, Trayvon would need to circle about 3/4 of the way around George's car. This is the most natural path Trayvon would have taken and so probably why George didn't mention it at the time.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yea, what I want to see is the state's reconstruction report.

I guess I was mistaken.

 

[LTC8K6]

GZ would be the one saying "get off" though. Unless there is other evidence that GZ was on top, even if Dee Dee thinks it was TM, logically it was GZ.

 

[KatieG]

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...20120531_1_rachel-fugate-seal-media-companies

Normally adversaries, the state and defense in the George Zimmerman case agree on at least one point: Media coverage is a huge problem and key evidence should be kept from the public.

However, lawyers representing more than a dozen newspapers and television stations across the state and elsewhere argue the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin is a matter of great interest and concern, and the public has a right to information.

The two sides will square off in court in Sanford Friday afternoon. At issue is evidence that includes the statements Zimmerman gave investigators, phone records and crime-scene photos.

In a motion seeking to have the documents sealed, Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda argued that their release "will result in … an inability to seat a fair and impartial jury in Seminole County."

The media companies — including the Orlando Sentinel, The Miami Herald, The New York Times and CBS News — argue there's no evidence of that.

"Neither the state nor the defendant have met the stringent burden that accompanies requests to close public records," according to one of a pair of motions filed this week by two media coalitions.

more...

 

[Dan O.]

GZ would be the one saying "get off" though. Unless there is other evidence that GZ was on top, even if Dee Dee thinks it was TM, logically it was GZ.

Dee Dee heard both of them speaking over the same cell phone connection and described the difference between the two voices. The initial verbal confrontation and "push" that she heard could have happened near the tee where George lost his keys. Trayvon tries again to get home moving south down the path and George tries to detain him. This is where Trayvon would be saying "get off". When George doesn't release Trayvon, Trayvon turns around and decks him.


It's unfortunate that George wasn't rendered unconscious from that first blow until after the police arrived to arrest him.

 

[This is The End]

Dee Dee heard both of them speaking over the same cell phone connection and described the difference between the two voices. The initial verbal confrontation and "push" that she heard could have happened near the tee where George lost his keys. Trayvon tries again to get home moving south down the path and George tries to detain him. This is where Trayvon would be saying "get off". When George doesn't release Trayvon, Trayvon turns around and decks him.


It's unfortunate that George wasn't rendered unconscious from that first blow until after the police arrived to arrest him.

Yeah but that doesn't fit with what we know of Z's story.

Why would Z lie about how the confrontation started, or who started it?

 

[KatieG]

Court motions preview evidence public hasn't seen in George Zimmerman case

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...nce-statements

............. In a motion asking Judge Kenneth Lester to seal some evidence in the case, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda writes Zimmerman's statements "are contradictory, and are inconsistent with the physical evidence and statements of witnesses."

Michael Grieco, a Miami defense attorney and former Miami-Dade prosecutor, said Zimmerman's statements could give the state "a tool to attack his credibility" and weaken his self-defense claim..........

Grieco said it's possible the state hopes to meet that burden with other evidence showing Zimmerman's frustration over recent burglaries in his community and his dissatisfaction with local law enforcement.

In his call to police on the night of the shooting, Zimmerman said of Trayvon, "these *******s always get away." A year earlier, he blasted the Sanford Police Department as unprofessional at a community forum after going on a ride-along.

As a prosecutor, "I would use these [examples] to paint a picture of a very angry man," Grieco said. "A wannabe cop."

More at link....

 

[Cylinder]

George Zimmerman's legal team adds murder specialist Don West

George Zimmerman, the defendant in one of the most-watched murder cases in the country, on Thursday added a new lawyer to his defense team: veteran Orlando attorney Donald R. West, who specializes in murders.

Attorney Mark O'Mara, lead defense counsel in the case, plans to make a formal announcement today

[snip]

West spent several years in private practice, specializing in death penalty cases, before joining the federal public defender's office in Orlando. He left that job Thursday, specifically to join O'Mara and defend Zimmerman, he said.

"That's true," West said. "I am excited about taking it on. It'll be quite a challenge. … This seemed like the right case."

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Photo of "Afro-Peruvian" great grandfather is in fact, a photo taken at the Gildemiester plantation during RWZ's visit to Peru.

Gildemiester Plantation [CasaGrande] in Peru. Gildemiester family are WEALTHY slave owners with tentacles worldwide.

Still pissed as hell the way Mark Nejame and the rest of Team Zim were touting George as some sort of saint for "mentoring" poor, underprivileged black youth, while all along it was something he was REQUIRED to do in order to beat the rap for assaulting a black police officer.

Seen on Twitter feeds today. No info about their veracity but I am looking for actual links.

I read on a Twitter feed today that TM attacked a bus driver because the driver told him he didn't have enough change. Then told the woman on the bus "If you say anything to the cops I'm gonna kill you bitch". No info about the veracity but I am looking for actual links .

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

As a prosecutor, "I would use these [examples] to paint a picture of a very angry man," Grieco said. "A wannabe cop."

That's what this entire case seems to be about for most people. "Painting" these two people into who we want them to be. It's also how a lot of innocent people have been convicted in this country, because once a prosecutor decides to "paint" someone, they can turn them into almost anything. Of course the defense does it too.

I'm often uncomfortable with prosecutors "painting someone", especially when the evidence is weak, I guess I've seen it too many times in the exposes on when innocent people have been convicted. I guarantee you that there's not a person participating in this thread that couldn't be painted to be a "very angry man" or "very angry woman" by looking at certain isolated pieces of their lives. If GZ truly has a violent history or a record of anger management issues I could see it, but I'm just not seeing any real evidence of that here. "These ******* always get away" is a worrisome comment, but could also be utterly meaningless, like so much, you can make it show anything you want.

When I was young I had a hot temper and on occasion I put my fists through walls. Never hit a person in my adult life though. I bet a good prosecutor could have learned about my outbursts and could have turned me into a regular Ted Bundy.

 

[LTC8K6]

If TM went up to GZ's truck and tried to intimidate GZ, and made "I have a gun" motions, then it's logical for GZ to call TM an ass****.

 

[Dan O.]

If TM went up to GZ's truck and tried to intimidate GZ, and made "I have a gun" motions, then it's logical for GZ to call TM an ass****.

Is that what you believe happened?

Have a look at the beginning of this video. this is probably what george saw. Trayvon is just walking casually with his hand in the hoody pocket. Does George believe Trayvon has a gun and is up to no good and still gets out of his truck and runs after him?!

 

[Dcdrac]

Is that what you believe happened?

Have a look at the beginning of this video. this is probably what george saw. Trayvon is just walking casually with his hand in the hoody pocket. Does George believe Trayvon has a gun and is up to no good and still gets out of his truck and runs after him?!

A very stupid thing to do if you beleive someone is armed if youare sane and sensible you would not confront them

 

[Dancing David]

Are you claiming that laying on soft grass with the assailant not pinning you down and your hand free not protecting your face and enough of a gap that you can reach you pistol under your waste band and enough distance between you and the assailant that you can draw your weapon and point it at the center of the assailants chest at an intermediat range which puts at least a couple of inches between the muzzle and the hoodie, that at that instant you are in danger of great bodily harm?

This looks like Trayvon was in the process of getting up which gave George access to his gun. George shot Trayvon not out of fear of future injury but out of anger for being beaten.

That is my guess as well, but I do not know the accuracy of powder burns and firing distance.

 

[LTC8K6]

Is that what you believe happened?

No, it is, he said again, speculation.

It's a fairly common move among wannabe gangstas to pretend you have a gun. This is usually done to get someone to back off of you. You basically imitate reaching for a gun in your waistband. It can be seen as a threat, or as simply bragging.

GZ could be referring to such a move. GZ actually says "waist" I think.

I don't think GZ ran after TM, nor do I think GZ ever intended to get anywhere near TM.

 

[Dancing David]

The FDLE LABORATORY REPORT dated March 12. 2012 on both of TM shirts concluded:
The sweatshirts each display a hole located in the lIpperleft chest area. The areas around these hol::s were nlicroscDpic~l1y examined <Inti chemically processed fbI' the presence ofgmlShot resicitles. Both hol~s display JesidllCs alld pbysical effects consistent with a contact shot.

So, the shirts say contact shot.

Edit: see post above

That clears that up. Thanks