General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[SnakeTongue]

http://www.holocaust-history.org/denial/

(...)

Perhaps you want to use another site.

What another Internet page you suggest?

Does the source have any inconsistent data?

 

[nomuse]

To be fair, Hitler's meddling in regards to the Me 262 had little practical impact on the aircraft's development. The real problem the fighter faced was getting its jet engines into mass production with the necessary quality. That problem wasn't finally solved until mid-1944, by which time it was too late—the back of the Luftwaffe as an effective daytime fighter force had already been broken.

Hitler did, of course, back the development of the V-1 and V-2 weapons systems which, while technologically impressive, were from a military point of view completely useless and a huge waste of precious resources.

I would argue that the ability to bomb London was considered essential to break their spirits and hasten their defeat. And similar thinking was behind many other bombing campaigns. And there is no denying that the rocket bombs (both kinds) brought a special terror.

But it also was not the first time Hitler seemed to hope the British would just roll over and play dead at the first sign of hardship.

 

[Corsair 115]

I would argue that the ability to bomb London was considered essential to break their spirits and hasten their defeat. And similar thinking was behind many other bombing campaigns.

Except, of course, that the theory had already been disproved. First in the Blitz against London in 1940-41 and again with the Battle of Berlin in the winter of 1943-44. (It is unfortunate that Harris remained an unwavering adherent to the theory throughout his time as head of Bomber Command; the force might have done much more to directly cripple the German war economy.)

And there is no denying that the rocket bombs (both kinds) brought a special terror.

It was still militarily useless, especially when one considers that the daytime skies over Germany from mid-1944 onwards belonged to the Allies. (At least Hitler's blunders did make victory easier for the Allies than it would have otherwise been. Had Hitler, for example, put Galland in charge of the Luftwaffe, winning aerial superiority over Europe would have been far more difficult and far more costly for the Allies than was the historical case.)

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

[...]In case you didn't realise, the reason Lifton was recommended was because his book is online for free.[...]

Oh Nick, oh Nick... I did not dismiss the source. You are a confused. I only made a criticism of the source. The link is still there, anyone is able to read it.

There are some amazing echoes in this place, aren't there?

Will you continue reading Lifton's book, Snaketongue? I just re-read the introduction and I actually became curious to see what you might select for quotation from the other chapters as you work your way through them. Which page are you on now? Based on the excerpts you chose, a person who does check might think, you never made it past the first sentences. Would I be wrong to conclude from the rest of your reply that you had not [yet] reached/read the page Nick Terry linked to when you responded? You don't appear very keen on exploring Alvarez now that a dedicated thread has been created for such matters - Wahrheitseeker's post, citing Kalkulierte Morde, the latest addition there- but perhaps you could post regular quotes of passages that appealed to you from Lifton in here? As a running commentary on what you like to ignore sorta thing.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/lifton/LiftonT003.shtml

To go back to Nick Terry again from the same comment: "There are dozens of other books on the same subject (Nazi medical experiments, and medical experiments at Auschwitz) which cover the same ground, use some of the same sources, while introducing other sources Lifton didn't use or couldn't use, and which together amount to the literature on that subject."

Based on an other one of Nick Terry's suggestions -that I might like to elaborate on other experiments (I do)- perhaps you could give J.C. Pressac's Struthof Album the Snaketongue treatment?
http://www.holocaust-history.org/klarsfeld/Struthof/T001.shtml

That link is still there too, anyone is able to read it from page 1. Interested?

 

[Dcdrac]

Bluespaceoddity, the deniers, snake and CO are not interested in the truth they only want to find evidence for thier agenda and there is not any so they thrash aobut making diversions and pointless observations over details that do not detract in any way from the crime that is known to have happened and is documented, withnessed and has been shown to have happened time after time after time

 

[000063]

I think you might have BSO confused with Dogzilla.

 

[Dcdrac]

Edited post meant to say Snake, CM and Co are doing all that one nail was out of place at Auschwitz and therefore the holocaust never happened thing

 

[Dogzilla]

Once again we see the irrelevent numbers game the deniers like to play, msot of us are totally aware of all the other orgnaised massacres.

They DO NOT EXCUSE what the Nazis did

Historical accuracy?!? We don't need no stinkin' historical accuracy!

 

[Dogzilla]

The numbers game is an irrelavnce another trick the deneirs like to play, yes we know aobut all the others it still does not excuse what the Nazis did

Because size doesn't matter, let's just all agree that thirty seven Jews were murdered during WWII and be done with it.

 

[Corsair 115]

Historical accuracy?!? We don't need no stinkin' historical accuracy!

Do you expect the historical accuracy to say the Holocaust never took place? Or are you just looking to correct a few numbers, e.g. the number of Jews killed was, say, 3 million and not about 5½? If the latter, outside of pedantry, so what? Does lowering the death count of Jews killed by the Holocaust suddenly make the Nazi regime any less reprehensible or horrible? No, it does not. Does it make the crime of rounding up civilians and executing them any less terrible because the numbers were lower than previously thought? No, it does not.

Any changes to numbers may be of interest to those who are fascinated by exact details, but in no way does any such numerical change alter the overall picture.

 

[SnakeTongue]

Considering my name is Matthew and you wrote "Andrew Matthew", don't you think you got this sentence wrong? Do random names pop into your head quite a lot?

Yes.

Rubbish. You didn't know who Himmler was until someone told you from this forum, remember?

Yes, I remember.

So what?

You did not know who you were until your parents told you, remember?

 

[Border Reiver]

Yes.




Yes, I remember.

So what?

You did not know who you were until your parents told you, remember?

Before you hit the "Submit Reply" button then you may want to do a quick check of what it is that you're posting then to ensure you've at least got someone's name right.

Given your earlier statement that you were a student of the weaponry of WWII you might be expected to know a little bit of the larger picture - like who might have been giving orders to the person using those weapons. When you asked "HImmler, who's that?" it betrayed an extremely limited knowledge of WWII - or an attempt to act like a troll. I'm going to suggest you avoid direct sunlight.

 

[000063]

Because size doesn't matter, let's just all agree that thirty seven Jews were murdered during WWII and be done with it.

Yet you seem to have no problem with Clay's reluctance to discuss the non-resistance of the Soviet POWs, or of any group besides the Jews.

The objection isn't so much that size doesn't matter, but that the difference in sizes you claim exists is not really significant in discussing whether the Nazis were guilty of attempted genocide. Whether 2.8 million or 6 million, the number is so large that human beings cannot really psychologically conceptualize it.

 

[SnakeTongue]

(...) You don't appear very keen on exploring Alvarez now that a dedicated thread has been created for such matters - Wahrheitseeker's post, citing Kalkulierte Morde, the latest addition there-

That thread did not reach the second page yet... Hilarious.

Dr Nicholas Terry write so many fat answers to Dogzilla that he cannot cope to "educate" the JREF users participating in that thread.

Based on an other one of Nick Terry's suggestions -that I might like to elaborate on other experiments (I do)- perhaps you could give J.C. Pressac's Struthof Album the Snaketongue treatment?
http://www.holocaust-history.org/klarsfeld/Struthof/T001.shtml

PREFACE

We decided to publish a study, for the fortieth anniversary of Hitler’s defeat, devoted to the terrifying episode of the assassination of 87 Jews, including 30 women, for the purpose of constituting a collection of skulls and skeletons to be kept at the Institute of Anatomy of a large German university. Because they were Jewish, these men and women were selected, asphyxiated, dismembered and carved up by men of science. Racist science.

(...)

The record is a terrible one, but the world must confront it, for it exemplifies the horror of the Jewish condition during the Nazi period. Those things that happened must be known. They cannot and must not be forgotten. Such is the main ambition of the publications we have undertaken.

Beate and Serge Klarsfeld​

Obvious political biased work.

The war in the East now presents us with the opportunity to remedy this shortage. By procuring the skulls of the Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars, who personify a repulsive yet characteristic subhumanity, we have the opportunity of obtaining tangible scientific evidence.

The actual obtaining and collecting of these skulls without difficulty could be best accomplished by a directive issued to the Wehrmacht in the future to immediately turn over alive all Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars to the field police [Feldpolizei].​

The above "attachment to the letter from Sievers to Rudolf Brandt, 29th February 1942", whose author explicit indicate a notion of:

"Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars"

VINNITSA
Nazi antisemitic propaganda frequently linked Jews to the fears of their German and foreign audiences. This poster, displayed in the German-occupied Soviet Union to foment both anti-Soviet and antisemitic fervor, uses the stereotype of the bloodthirsty “Jewish Bolshevik commissar” to associate “the Jew” with the murder of more than 9,000 Soviet citizens in Vinnitsa, Ukraine, an atrocity committed by Stalin’s secret police in 1937–38. German forces uncovered the massacre in May 1943.
Unknown artist, 1943.​

http://www.ushmm.org/museum/press/kits/download.php?content=propaganda&image=prop_11

Jewish Bolshevism, Judeo-Bolshevism, and known as Żydokomuna in Poland, is an antisemitic stereotype based on the claim that Jews have been the driving force behind or are disproportionately involved in the modern Communist movement, or sometimes more specifically Russian Bolshevism.

(...)

Categories: Antisemitic canards​

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

If "Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars" is a canard, and Jews were not among captured communists, why would the Professor Hirt require the skeletons from "Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars"? Why would a scientist demand skeletons from a race which happen not to be among the captured communists?

 

[SnakeTongue]

Given your earlier statement that you were a student of the weaponry of WWII you might be expected to know a little bit of the larger picture - like who might have been giving orders to the person using those weapons. When you asked "HImmler, who's that?" it betrayed an extremely limited knowledge of WWII - or an attempt to act like a troll. I'm going to suggest you avoid direct sunlight.

So what?

Let's test your "limited" knowledge:

Which role did the "Smoking Snakes" played in World War II?

 

[A'isha]

Obvious political biased work.

The entire sickening story of the Jews who were specially selected, murdered, and rendered down into skeletons for display by the Institute of Anatomy in Strassburg is also detailed in Heather Pringle's book on the Ahnenerbe that has been mentioned in this thread before.

If "Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars" is a canard, and Jews were not among captured communists, why would the Professor Hirt require the skeletons from "Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars"? Why would a scientist demand skeletons from a race which happen not to be among the captured communists?

Because he bought into the canard. That's the problem with canards.

 

[uke2se]

So what?

Let's test your "limited" knowledge:

Which role did the "Smoking Snakes" played in World War II?

You still haven't finished the test I gave you. You named one person. Who are the other three? This is kind of a big deal, because so far you have shown a severe lack of knowledge on the subject we are discussing here. Very much like your denier brethren, you seem to believe that personal incredulity equals evidence, and much like a twoofer you appear to believe that if something isn't on the internet it isn't worth knowing.

Please finish the test that I gave you. Afterwards, take a long hard pondering about what exactly you want to achieve in this thread. So far you are making holocaust deniers look retarded, and I don't think that's your intent.

 

[Nick Terry]

Obvious political biased work.

Worthless ad hominem dismissal.

 

[Nick Terry]

So far you are making holocaust deniers look retarded

To be fair, that's actually a group effort on their part.

 

[Nick Terry]

Does the source have any inconsistent data?

As you're not a native English speaker, you probably don't realise that 'data' is entirely the wrong word to use in that context if you are hoping to discuss thing idiomatically and appropriately.

'Data' is most often used quantitatively, whereas the subject under discussion (that would be Horst Schumann ramming sticks into rectums in order to induce an involuntary ejaculation) was not actually quantitative at all.

Importing sciencey-sounding terms from one discipline into another isn't actually scientific at all. It's pseudoscientific.