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General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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so Snake tongue has shown all he can do is trawl the net and does not know what REAL reearch is either
 
Clayton Moore said:
I guess they ignore the physical improbability of that nonsense.

Too small an area.

The actual work of burying, digging up, cremating, reburying.

A huge BUT to explain where the imaginary bodies of imaginary exterminated Jewish people went.

All the freaking convoluted explanations of why the Germans didn't perform tasks in the most expeditious manner. Over and over and over and over and over. It's enough to gag a maggot.
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I may be wrong, but I believe we have shown that the Nazis were hardly efficient or thorough in practically everything. Hitler was a paranoid freak who took "divide and conquer" to ridiculous levels.

Look at how he diminished and reduced the power of the military overall with the use of competing (as in competing for manpower and materiel resources) - the SA, the Waffen SS and the Wehrmacht. The was the completion in the various intelligence services, none of whom co-operated, the Abwehr, foriegn ministry and of course the SS. There was the unfocused way that Germany approached weapons (tanks, aircraft, artillery, small arms, ships , etc) where grabbing the big bright shiny thing (Tiger tanks anyone?) or needlessly meddling in design (interference in the development of the Sturmgewehr 44, and the Me262) or a desire to focus resources on what are needless wastes (Maus tank, the V weapons, etc) or a refusal to fully commit (women weren't encouraged to either enlist or to heavily go into industry in Germany as it would detract from the kinder, kuche, kirke vision the Nazis had for women. I could go on.

The Allies in contrast were much better a focusing efforts to and in mobilizing the populations of their countries and naturally achieved better results.

I'm frankly surprised looking at German logistics that they were able to last as long as they did. I'm not sure if some of the party bonzen could have organized an orgy in a brothel, but they could certainly organize a parade to say "Hitler's great!" if it could get them a few more perks.
 
Dogzilla said:
(...) The other end of the process is where the amazing feats of productivity occur--removing the bodies from the gas chambers and arranging them in the mass graves to achieve a density far greater than that of any other mass grave. It's extremely demanding physically but it also requires highly developed visual spatial skills and a degree of coordination between workers--a degree of coordination that would need to be developed with a staff that is comprised of people who have been on the job for no more than a couple of weeks.
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No, Dogzilla, no!

It just require an ludicrous mathematical formula which determine the volume of the body in accordance with the mass variation of an hypothetical human male model adapted from Da Vinci drawing:

z = Body Mass (Kg)
y = Burial Pit Volume(m^3)

x = (217000*y)/(327*z)

Let's verify the capacity of the Belzec burial pits for a fat-fact-checked human body (1.73m 100Kg):

x = (217000*21310)/(327*100)

x ~141415

Belzec burial pits can hold up to 141,415 obese bodies in accordance with the formula from Dr Nicholas Terry book.
 
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SnakeTongue said:
No, Dogzilla, no!

It just require an ludicrous mathematical formula which determine the volume of the body in accordance with the mass variation of an hypothetical human male model adapted from Da Vinci drawing:

z = Body Mass (Kg)
y = Burial Pit Volume(m^3)

x = (217000*z)/(327*y)

Let's verify the capacity of the Belzec burial pits for a fat-fact-checked human body (1.73m 100Kg):

x = (217000*21310)/(327*100)

x ~141415

Belzec burial pits can hold up to 141,415 obese bodies in accordance with the formula from Dr Nicholas Terry book.
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This is pointless diversionary tactic.

Do some real reasearch into real history rather than this none sense
 
SnakeTounge, have you learned who Himmler was yet?

Do you know who these people are?

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6a00d8341c562c53ef01310.jpg

1610z.jpg

exlg2mt4wyeaywam.jpg


Let's see if you have actually learned anything, given that your knowledge level in this topic was... generously speaking at a high-school level.
 
Dcdrac said:
This is pointless diversionary tactic.

Do some real reasearch into real history rather than this none sense
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I take that from a book which discuss history in case you did not notice.

Your "none sense" means you cannot absorb basic arithmetical calculations or verify the source by yourself.
 
uke2se said:
SnakeTounge, have you learned who Himmler was yet?

Do you know who these people are?

Let's see if you have actually learned anything, given that your knowledge level in this topic was... generously speaking at a high-school level.
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The last picture is a portrait of Reinhard Heydrich.
 
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Dogzilla said:
There does seem to be some doubt over his accomplishments. But in any case, decomposing bodies and coal aren't the same thing. Unlike the death camp sondercommando, Stakhanov didn't have to put the coal in the ground first. Stakhanov accomplishments didn't require burning the coal either. But if it had, he would find coal burns easier than corpses.

The productivity of the corpse removers and burners is only part of the process. If they're using mechanical scoops, it would make that end of the job much easier than if they had to do it by hand. The other end of the process is where the amazing feats of productivity occur--removing the bodies from the gas chambers and arranging them in the mass graves to achieve a density far greater than that of any other mass grave. It's extremely demanding physically but it also requires highly developed visual spatial skills and a degree of coordination between workers--a degree of coordination that would need to be developed with a staff that is comprised of people who have been on the job for no more than a couple of weeks.
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Throwing bodies into graves is highly skilled labor. :) :D :dl:
 
SnakeTongue said:
Andrew Matthew, you think wrong.
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Considering my name is Matthew and you wrote "Andrew Matthew", don't you think you got this sentence wrong? Do random names pop into your head quite a lot?

SnakeTongue said:
I research the whole cyberspace. I do not limit my queries to pictures and videos. I read textual and mathematical information as much I can.
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Rubbish. You didn't know who Himmler was until someone told you from this forum, remember?


SnakeTongue said:
I also have been in the Internet page you support it and the newspaper page which you participate...
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What does this sentence even mean? Von Luck wrote a book, not a newspaper or an internet blog.
 
TSR said:
No, actually. "to be fair" no one here or anywhere nominated Schloss as *the* one credible witness.

She was noted as one of many, despite Sagg's insistence that zie only be offered one name. And all zie or CM could offer to counter her testimony was personal incredulity.

And so, once again, you are documented as either being unable to read for comprehension or unable to be honest on this topic.

Denier target practice -- don't you fools ever run out of shoes in which you *haven't* shot holes?
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As usual Dogzilla is lying on every point.

We guys - nope, me.
Forced - nope, just offering a few names for discussion.
Nominate one credible Jewish eyewitness - nope, named with 2 others and explicitly explained that the "name one" is a stupid game; of course, one of us guys, Nick, named about 200 for discussion but . . .

Judge for yourself. Here was the first post by us guys (supposedly) being forced (according to Dogzilla's lying) to nominate Pesye Schloss as the one credible eyewitness (says Dogzilla):
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7571462&postcount=5853
 
Border Reiver said:
I may be wrong, but I believe we have shown that the Nazis were hardly efficient or thorough in practically everything. Hitler was a paranoid freak who took "divide and conquer" to ridiculous levels.

Look at how he diminished and reduced the power of the military overall with the use of competing (as in competing for manpower and materiel resources) - the SA, the Waffen SS and the Wehrmacht. The was the completion in the various intelligence services, none of whom co-operated, the Abwehr, foriegn ministry and of course the SS. There was the unfocused way that Germany approached weapons (tanks, aircraft, artillery, small arms, ships , etc) where grabbing the big bright shiny thing (Tiger tanks anyone?) or needlessly meddling in design (interference in the development of the Sturmgewehr 44, and the Me262) or a desire to focus resources on what are needless wastes (Maus tank, the V weapons, etc) or a refusal to fully commit (women weren't encouraged to either enlist or to heavily go into industry in Germany as it would detract from the kinder, kuche, kirke vision the Nazis had for women. I could go on.

The Allies in contrast were much better a focusing efforts to and in mobilizing the populations of their countries and naturally achieved better results.

I'm frankly surprised looking at German logistics that they were able to last as long as they did. I'm not sure if some of the party bonzen could have organized an orgy in a brothel, but they could certainly organize a parade to say "Hitler's great!" if it could get them a few more perks.
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The deniers have convinced me. There's no way the efficient, thorough, militarily brilliant Germans would have done any of that.

Therefore, I have now come to the conclusion that the German defeat in WWII is nothing but a hoax, and that the Nazis did indeed defeat all their enemies and conquer the world, and it's only through the efforts of the Worldwide International Jewish Zionspiracy and their dupes among the Allies that no one realizes today that the Allies, in fact, lost the war!

No one but me, that is. Wake up sheeple!
 
nomuse said:
tsig said:
Throwing bodies into graves is highly skilled labor. :) :D :dl:
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Apparently he thinks a mass grave is like a game of Tetris -- hand-eye coordination is necessary to fit all those odd-shaped humans in efficiently.
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Perhaps he based his "tetris" argument over Charles A Bay's "Human Body Proportions from DaVinci":

(...) If one were building a coffin for an individual of this size, and if one made sure the interior were 3' X 2' X 8' cells in size, it would fit him snugly, yet leave a lot of empty space, particularly around the legs, head and neck. Such a coffin would enclose 6.6 cubic feet. The SS were interested in efficient use of the burial pits, so it is clear that they made sure the burial commando packed the bodies optimally. So if we use the metric of 3.3 cubic feet as the displacement of the ideal man, any calculation of a graves capacity using that number will be conservative to begin with, and will be more so if we do not factor the women's and children's smaller bodies.​
 
Clayton Moore said:
The point is an engine is an engine is an engine. If you are using an engine to perform a task and the engine breaks down AND you don't have the freaking parts to fix the freaking engine you replace that engine with a similar engine.

Bottom line? Saying alleged gas chambers broke down and couldn't be fixed is beyond jejune.
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By your logic, the mechanic who fixes my carburetor should be able to fix a Rolls-Royce jet turbine, because they're both engines, right?

If the an engine breaks down, and you can't fix it, and you want to replace it with a new engine, you still have to wait for the new engine to arrive.

Of course, no debunker is arguing it couldn't be fixed, just that there were periods of time when the engines were not in a functional state.

Clayton Moore said:
And that has what to do with the alleged plan to exterminate the Jewish people? You're saying the Germans were killing Jewish people 24/7 with these gas chambers and an engine wasn't available so they just stopped?
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No one is arguing that. We are arguing that the engines broke down and had to be repaired often.

The availability of spare engines was the reason the alleged gas chambers were built in the first place?
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Why don't you find out and make an actual assertion instead of the first thing that comes to mind?

The whole ritual scenario of bringing people to Poland, maintaining them for months or years and then allegedly killing them, is so irrational and counterproductive it never freaking happened.
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Ah. So none of the Soviet POWs were killed either?

Dogzilla said:
So incredulity is the only thing you have?
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Given that I just linked to two sources supporting my logical argument, which you do not actually address, no it is not.

Why not just inject petrol into the man's heart and then, after making a lampshade out of his skin, stuffing mattresses with his hair, smelting his gold fillings, and shrinking his head, just cut off his testicles and count the sperm before sending what's left to the soap factory? That would be the Nazi way, you know.
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They couldn't spare the petrol.

Sarcasm aside, it's ironic that the rest of your post is nothing more than incredulity, and you avoid presenting that analysis I requested.

SnakeTongue said:
Perhaps he based his "tetris" argument over Charles A Bay's "Human Body Proportions from DaVinci":

(...) If one were building a coffin for an individual of this size, and if one made sure the interior were 3' X 2' X 8' cells in size, it would fit him snugly, yet leave a lot of empty space, particularly around the legs, head and neck. Such a coffin would enclose 6.6 cubic feet. The SS were interested in efficient use of the burial pits, so it is clear that they made sure the burial commando packed the bodies optimally. So if we use the metric of 3.3 cubic feet as the displacement of the ideal man, any calculation of a graves capacity using that number will be conservative to begin with, and will be more so if we do not factor the women's and children's smaller bodies.​
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http://www.holocaust-history.org/denial/

The Holocaust History Project is dedicated to fighting Holocaust-denial (or "revisionism"), whether based on a hatred of Jews or a desire to rehabilitate the discredited philosophy of National Socialism.​

http://www.holocaust-history.org/denial/revisionism-qa.shtml
5) Wasn't the Holocaust proven at the war crimes trials?

Yes. The Nuremberg Trials (the trial of the major war criminals 1945-46 and subsequent trials) established beyond a doubt that there had been a plan to exterminate the Jews and that the attempt was made to carry out that plan. Later trials in Germany in the 1950s and 1960s produced even more information about this.

6) Didn't the Nazis themselves admit there was a program to exterminate the Jews?

Yes, repeatedly. Statements, speeches and diary entries survive from such Nazis as Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Eichmann and many others that testify to the plan to kill the Jews. In addition, the documentary evidence, in the form of captured German documents, is staggering.​

Um.

Perhaps you want to use another site.
 
Border Reiver said:
... or needlessly meddling in design (interference in the development of the Sturmgewehr 44, and the Me262) ....
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To be fair, Hitler's meddling in regards to the Me 262 had little practical impact on the aircraft's development. The real problem the fighter faced was getting its jet engines into mass production with the necessary quality. That problem wasn't finally solved until mid-1944, by which time it was too late—the back of the Luftwaffe as an effective daytime fighter force had already been broken.

Hitler did, of course, back the development of the V-1 and V-2 weapons systems which, while technologically impressive, were from a military point of view completely useless and a huge waste of precious resources.
 
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