Founder of Sea Shepherd Arrested in Germany

[portlandatheist]

I think no matter how you feel about whaling in general, I think its fair to say that Japanese whaling has as much to do with research as the Sea Shepard does with whale conservation.

 

[portlandatheist]

The guise of "research" has a lot to do with it, yes. If the Japanese could somehow convince me that their whaling is in any way akin to what the Inuit do, I may even change my mind.

But seeing as though they enjoy slaughtering (See Taiji) I'm not gonna hold my breath. They are contemptable.

Your position is confusing to me in that I really don't see much of a distinction between what the Inuit do and the Japanese. I understand that some think whaling is always bad, a view I've held the majority of my life, but these two cultures are both trying to hold on to something they see as their respective heritage, perhaps a bad culture practice and I understand that argument but cultural nonetheless and they use similar excuses, I really don't see much difference.

 

[portlandatheist]

HA HA HA HA!!!!!!

He's taking our money and fueling a pleasure cruise with our money....


IN THE ANTARCTIC

Okee doke. Hellova spot. Me? I'd have chosen Bermuda but I'm goofy like that.

I would actually love to take a vacation to Antarctica. I've applied (unsuccessfully) to get work at McMurdo and I have a few friends who've taken a cruise there. I'd take it over the tropics any day.

 

[portlandatheist]

If you all had tasted whale meat, you would all cheer the whalers on.

Mmm, whale meat.

I disagree. I think that Muk Tuk is disgusting and the meat itself is OK but nothing to write home about. Its tender for sure but very marbled with fat as well. Of course, the meat I had was only boiled in water without any flavoring or spices at all so I don't know what it would be like if properly prepared. The Inuit insisted that the photos were not free and that I had to participate in the work, the food, and the festivities. Cultural immersion I suppose.

 

[Checkmite]

In point of fact Antarctica is visited by hundreds of tourists every year on cruise ships and private yachts. And that's not counting the however many visitors like this tool who declare that they will not be following any country's laws about visiting Antarctica (but still expect Southern Ocean nations to respond when they need assistance) and never check in with anyone.

 

[Ryokan]

I disagree. I think that Muk Tuk is disgusting and the meat itself is OK but nothing to write home about. Its tender for sure but very marbled with fat as well. Of course, the meat I had was only boiled in water without any flavoring or spices at all so I don't know what it would be like if properly prepared. The Inuit insisted that the photos were not free and that I had to participate in the work, the food, and the festivities. Cultural immersion I suppose.

Boiled? Sounds horrible.. Treat it like a steak and it turns out delicious.

Whale meat isn't every day food in Norway. I eat it less than once a year, and mostly only when grandma makes it. But it sure is a treat. I see the word 'heritage' thrown around, and I'm sure that's part of why the Inuits and Faroese do it. But when it comes to Japan, I suspect they do it for the same reason we Norwegians do it: We see it as a great tasting meat and a real treat.

 

[Ryokan]

In point of fact Antarctica is visited by hundreds of tourists every year on cruise ships and private yachts. And that's not counting the however many visitors like this tool who declare that they will not be following any country's laws about visiting Antarctica (but still expect Southern Ocean nations to respond when they need assistance) and never check in with anyone.

Nice tie in to the thread topic, as Sea Shepherd assisted in the search for Berserk..

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

who were you speaking to ?
Macgyver1968 clearly was only angry at Randfan

I saw him reacting to a personal insult the way most people do: personal insults make people angry.

Sure, Randfan apologized but you then very quickly took the opportunity to make fun of him in a pretty dirty fashion - advancing the fallacy that getting angry at a personal insult is the same thing as a bankrupt emotional argument. He got angry and left at that dirty tactic of yours, which was on top of a previously dirty tactic by someone else. And you followed with another one too. Human nature dictates that once anger is provoked, the apology does not instantly vacate that anger so it is an especially vulnerable time for the person provoked.

But I do withdraw any statement about Watson being your terrorist hero. I actually did think a previous comment with an ad hom in it was yours, and it wasn't. You were just having a lot of fun making him angry, basically accusing him of being a hypocrite which was not true and a cheap shot. So I apologize for that confusion but it remains true you took a cheap shot at a guy who was already provoked, and you thought that was funny.

 

[Marduk]

I saw him reacting to a personal insult the way most people do: personal insults make people angry.

Sure, Randfan apologized but you then very quickly took the opportunity to make fun of him in a pretty dirty fashion - advancing the fallacy that getting angry at a personal insult is the same thing as a bankrupt emotional argument. He got angry and left at that dirty tactic of yours, which was on top of a previously dirty tactic by someone else. And you followed with another one too. Human nature dictates that once anger is provoked, the apology does not instantly vacate that anger so it is an especially vulnerable time for the person provoked.

But I do withdraw any statement about Watson being your terrorist hero. I actually did think a previous comment with an ad hom in it was yours, and it wasn't. You were just having a lot of fun making him angry, basically accusing him of being a hypocrite which was not true and a cheap shot. So I apologize for that confusion but it remains true you took a cheap shot at a guy who was already provoked, and you thought that was funny.

you are confusing humour with dirty tactics, there has been no anomosity between Magyver and me in this thread at all and at no time have I accused anyone of being a hypocrite, maybe you should go back and re read it,

admit it, you went off on one with no reason apart from that which you have already admitted you misread which I didn't post, your accusation of enmity on my part therefore was made under a misunderstanding and is unfounded. You have yet to withdraw that like you did your claim Watson is my hero

I admire people that have integrity.

show me yours !

See how I "won?" .

This wasn't a contest

I got him angry.

that was Randfan, your post was all over the shop wasn't it

 

[portlandatheist]

Boiled? Sounds horrible.. Treat it like a steak and it turns out delicious.

Whale meat isn't every day food in Norway. I eat it less than once a year, and mostly only when grandma makes it. But it sure is a treat. I see the word 'heritage' thrown around, and I'm sure that's part of why the Inuits and Faroese do it. But when it comes to Japan, I suspect they do it for the same reason we Norwegians do it: We see it as a great tasting meat and a real treat.

we were a mile offshore on the ice with limited supplies. I have tons of photos

 

[theprestige]

I am just thinking of a good old fashion Boston st Patricks day parade.

See US Representative Peter King

Or this link and link

I'm still lost. Are you seriously implying that support for the IRA is either a policy of the US government, or an important part of America's national identity (or both)?

 

[theprestige]

Suppose that we aren't talking about fully self-aware humans, but humans who are at a similar level of awareness as seals and whales, like infants or children?

Sounds like an argument for legalizing abortion through the 24th trimester to me.

Or are you arguing that--whales and humans being roughly equal--it's in our best interest to prohibit the killing of whales, in order to justify prohibiting the killing of humans. Is that what you're arguing?

 

[tomwaits]

I have no idea what you just said...what the **** does AIDS and the middle east have anything do with the justification of killing whales?

You totally missed the point. He was responding to an argument that went along the lines of "Why would they try to prevent whaling when there are worse things out there?" The point is that there is always "worse stuff" out there, and at any rate what issue is worse than another is open for debate. If there's a problem, then it's perfectly ok that someone spends time trying to solve it or at least get people to pay attention to it, regardless of whether there are worse problems out there.

 

[Wildy]

Your position is confusing to me in that I really don't see much of a distinction between what the Inuit do and the Japanese.

I don't see the distinction either.

I think the difference is that there are more Japanese people or something and letting them hunt whales will take whales away from the Inuit, Norwegians, Faroese, Icelanders, people in Chukotka Autonomous Oblast (Russia), people from Lamalera and Lamakera (Indonesia), and people from various Caribbean countries and do you want all those people to starve?

I understand that some think whaling is always bad, a view I've held the majority of my life, but these two cultures are both trying to hold on to something they see as their respective heritage, perhaps a bad culture practice and I understand that argument but cultural nonetheless and they use similar excuses, I really don't see much difference.

The only difference seems to be scale. If the Japanese only took 100 whales people wouldn't be so up in arms about their hunts either because they aren't killing as many whales or because the numbers are in the range of aboriginal quotas.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I don't see the distinction either.

Me either. I suspect some fuzzy-headed Rousseau-esque "noble savage" rubbish or equally foolish cultural relativist ideas influenced the decision to let tribal people kill whales. My view is that they should be made to knock it off just as the Japanese should be made to knock it off. It's 2012, they don't need to kill whales and we shouldn't tolerate them killing whales for fun or for profit.

 

[Ryokan]

What's with the 'don't need to' argument? If we're only going to eat food we really need, we'd all have a very bland diet. There's a lot of stuff out there that we don't need to eat.

 

[ponderingturtle]

1.) Not all animals experience pain the same (that's a scientific fact). 2.) Not all animals are self aware. So, IMO, there is a substantive difference based on empirical evidence. Repeating the same argument over and over isn't advancing the discussion.

So dogs are not self aware, so their pain does not matter. They why is dog fighting an issue?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Are you being obtuse? You are arguing by assertion and that's a fallacy. You are not making an argument based on empirical facts. I am.

Ad hominem deleted. Sorry.

And what facts are those? Studies in dolphins and generalizing them to all whales is like a study in chimps and generalizing it to all primates. Show your work.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm still lost. Are you seriously implying that support for the IRA is either a policy of the US government, or an important part of America's national identity (or both)?

My point is that people broadly don't care about what a group does but if they agree with that groups stated goals.

 

[DC]

Do you truly feel this is the kind of cause that's worth killing people for?

who got killed?

Do you truly feel whaling is the kind of cause that's worth killing endangered species for?