Does Islam belong in Germany?

[Toontown]

Originally I thought you had made a mistake in chronology. It is important whether Islam originated in the seventh or the fifth century, as the political situation in Europe and the Near East changed enormously during those centuries.

But there is no discussion of the political situation, so it's not important.

So the correction seemed worth making. If I had realised it simply arose from the fact that you don't know how to number centuries, I would probably have let it pass.

Oh, I know it. It's the 21st century, but the year is 2012. If I had any inkling of the huge foofaraw such a minor boo-boo would generate, I would have been more careful.

 

[Craig B]

Never heard of "calendar era", ANTPogo? You either, Craig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_era

Well, now you have.

What are you on about? Can't you read the source you have linked to? It clearly tells us that CE refers to the Dionysian Common Era, and that it is a particular calendar era, like the Muslim AH, the Jewish Anno Mundi, the Ethiopian era of the Incarnation, etc etc. "Calendar Era" is what the Common Era is an example of, but the other eras are calendar eras without being CE. Just as a dog is an animal without being a cat.

And for the umpteenth time, "CE" stands not for "calendar era" but for "common era", or as some say, "Christian era". But the latter is not quite accurate, as some Christians, eg the Ethiopians mentioned above, don't use it.

 

[A'isha]

"Calendar Era" and "Common Era" are both correct.

No, as an abbreviation used next to a year, "CE" means "Common Era" (or sometimes "Current Era", and rarely "Christian Era"), but never "Calendar Era".

I'm surprised you all-knowing calendar-numbering people didn't know that.

I'm not, since it isn't true.

I guess different people know different things.

Pop quiz, Toontown!

"Julius Caesar was assassinated in 44 BCE"

The "BCE" there stands for what:

A: Before the Common Era

B: Before the Current Era

C: Before the Calendar Era

D: Before the Christian Era

E: Mostly A, and sometimes B and D too.

F: None of the above.

 

[Toontown]

As fascinating as calendar systems undoubtedly are, it looks like the riveting subject is being used here as a browbeating tool. So whatever interest I might have been able to muster in a normal conversation is thoroughly extinguished here.

 

[A'isha]

As fascinating as calendar systems undoubtedly are, it looks like the riveting subject is being used here as a browbeating tool. So whatever interest I might have been able to muster in a normal conversation is thoroughly extinguished here.

You know, the easiest way to avoid being "browbeaten" for saying utterly wrong things is to stop saying wrong things.

The second easiest way to avoid being "browbeaten" for saying utterly wrong things is to not double down on your errors and keep insisting you're actually right.

 

[Craig B]

Julius Caesar was assassinated in 44 BCE

And his assassins used a calendar era called AUC (anno urbis conditae) which started with the foundation of the city of Rome in 753 BCE. So they would have thought of the year of Caesar's death as DCCIX AUC or something of the kind. Another calendar era, but not CE.

 

[Toontown]

You know, the easiest way to avoid being "browbeaten" for saying utterly wrong things is to stop saying wrong things.

The second easiest way to avoid being "browbeaten" for saying utterly wrong things is to not double down on your errors and keep insisting you're actually right.

That doesn't work. You get browbeaten anyway. The truth pisses people off much worse than a calendar boo-boo. There is hardly anything that pisses people off like the truth does.

 

[A'isha]

That doesn't work. You get browbeaten anyway. The truth pisses people off much worse than a calendar boo-boo. There is hardly anything that pisses people off like the truth does.

Did I browbeat baron?

 

[Toontown]

Did I browbeat baron?

Of course not. He was a total suck-up.

 

[A'isha]

Of course not. He was a total suck-up.

 

[Craig B]

That doesn't work. You get browbeaten anyway. The truth pisses people off much worse than a calendar boo-boo. There is hardly anything that pisses people off like the truth does.

Oh, so it's a boo-boo now is it? Not too long ago it was

Never heard of "calendar era", ANTPogo? You either, Craig?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_era

Well, now you have.

It's not the truths you utter (if such there be) that piss people off, but arrogant foolishness like the above, followed by petulant accusations of browbeating when other people point out your mistakes.

 

[angrysoba]

 

[Toontown]

Oh, so it's a boo-boo now is it?

A boo-boo was all it ever was. It's only big to you. To you it's a chance to "marginalize" a jackboot.

But I'm only a jackboot because I"ve disagreed with you, whereas if I marched in lockstep with you I wouldn't be a jackboot.

I'd be a thought-nazi.

It's not the truths you utter (if such there be) that piss people off, but arrogant foolishness like the above, followed by petulant accusations of browbeating when other people point out your mistakes.

So, for how many days are we going to be on the infamous calendar boo-boo inquisition?

 

[A'isha]

So, for how many days are we going to be on the infamous calendar boo-boo inquisition?

Depends on how long you want to keep trying to claim you were right after all, and the only reason anyone cares that you repeatedly insisted that "CE" does too mean "Calendar Era" and that Muhammad did so live in the Fifth Century is because us fascist zombie leftist Islamonazi jackbooted thugs won't leave you alone until you're reduced to a quivering sycophantic puddle like baron was.

 

[Toontown]

Depends on how long you want to keep trying to claim you were right after all, and the only reason anyone cares that you repeatedly insisted that "CE" does too mean "Calendar Era" and that Muhammad did so live in the Fifth Century is because us fascist zombie leftist Islamonazi jackbooted thugs won't leave you alone.

I said it was a boo-boo. It wouldn't have happened if my mind hadn't been on other things.

If you're trying for a major confession of a major, critical error, you'll be browbeating for a long time. You'e lucky you got the boo-boo. That was a stroke of luck for you.

 

[angrysoba]

1. Ignorance of how to have an open, honest debate.

2. Lack of desire to have an open, honest debate.


In internet political forums, there are always packs of hard-wired ideologues who run in packs, will not give an inch, and are determined to dominate the gotcha games that pass for debate.



Do you know what Islam is? Whatever you say Islam is, someone will dredge up some Muslim sect who are not that, or give lip service to not being that.
Unless what you say Islam is plays into their ideological hand.

These stumbling blocks of whom you speak are hardened political ideologues, looking to impose their ideological will on the naive.



Isolate? You mean ban them? That's the only way you can make them shut up.

Hardened veterans of the ideology wars take pains to avoid being banned.



What did you think this is? A debating society? This is a freaking political forum. How long have you been frequenting political forums?

There can never be open, informed debate. Nothing can be resolved and the friction will continue.

Unless it's an echo chamber. And this thread is about to become an echo chamber.

This is beyond parody.

Toontown is bemoaning the lack of open, honest, informed debate. There's no doubt that at least one person here is not particularly informed and insists on their own personal definition of Islamism which they rather dishonestly pretended is available on the "online dictionary" that they forgot to properly link to. Apparently "Islamism" is a religion founded in the 5th Century of the Calendar Era! And if you disagree then you will be pointed to an erroneous link before being told to forget the whole thing and stop persecuting, "browbeating" etc...


Look, Toontown, you do realize there is a difference between disagreeing with someone and browbeating, don't you? If you are shown to be actually, demonstrably ignorant of facts (not opinions, but facts!) then claiming persecution just makes you look silly. Yet you seem to have to double-down on your falsehoods and keep pretending you were right all along.

 

[A'isha]

I said it was a boo-boo.

A boo-boo you made several posts trying (and failing miserably) to insist wasn't a boo-boo at all.

It wouldn't have happened if my mind hadn't been on other things.

Maybe you ought to take a break and read up on things a bit before you post, then. At the very least, try reading the wikipedia articles you link to in your posts to understand how they don't actually support your incorrect claims. Preferably before you post said links.

If you're trying for a major confession of a major, critical error, you'll be browbeating for a long time.

I'd settle for you simply reading this book that I recommended to you earlier. I'll even send you an Amazon gift card for the full price of the Kindle version, if you'll read it. I'll even send it via email to a completely anonymous email address of your choice.

I once made Skeptic the same offer, for this book. He never even responded to my offer. What will you do, Toontown?

You'e lucky you got the boo-boo. That was a stroke of luck for you.

It's easy when you keep making these same "strokes of luck" over and over and over again.

 

[Cleon]

That doesn't work. You get browbeaten anyway. The truth pisses people off much worse than a calendar boo-boo. There is hardly anything that pisses people off like the truth does.

Here's the problem; if what you're saying isn't actually true, then you're not telling the truth.

 

[Toontown]

This is beyond parody.

Toontown is bemoaning the lack of open, honest, informed debate. There's no doubt that at least one person here is not particularly informed and insists on their own personal definition of Islamism which they rather dishonestly pretended is available on the "online dictionary" that they forgot to properly link to.

Aww. Poor diddums didn't get his link? Well, here it is:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Islamism

And here's the part I quoted, from the thesaurus section:

2. Islamism - the monotheistic religious system of Muslims founded in Arabia in the 7th century and based on the teachings of Muhammad as laid down in the Koran; "Islam is a complete way of life, not a Sunday religion"; "the term Muhammadanism is offensive to Muslims who believe that Allah, not Muhammad, founded their religion"


You could have found the link yourself by simply cutting and pasting the entire quote into the search field.

Apparently "Islamism" is a religion founded in the 5th Century of the Calendar Era! And if you disagree then you will be pointed to an erroneous link before being told to forget the whole thing and stop persecuting, "browbeating" etc...

That's right. People not prone to obsessive browbeating would have long since released the meatless bone of contention. It's nothing. There is nothing to it, and no rational reason to go on with it.

Unless you've got axes to grind and evens to be gotten. Which we know you do. You never did get over me handing you your head when you tried to interrogate me, did you.

Look, Toontown, you do realize there is a difference between disagreeing with someone and browbeating, don't you?

Yeah. And this is definitely browbeating.

If you are shown to be actually, demonstrably ignorant of facts (not opinions, but facts!) then claiming persecution just makes you look silly. Yet you seem to have to double-down on your falsehoods and keep pretending you were right all along.

Are you blind? I've said several times now the calendar thing was a boo-boo, a hasty reading error. Yet on and on you go, nag, nag, nag, like an old cranky woman, even having the gall to talk about how (I) look silly.

Would you be Mollified if I cut off a finger and mailed it to you with a written apology and a promise to never make two calendar errors in a row again?

Sure looks like browbeating to me. Unless you're trying to compensate for something.

 

[Toontown]

Here's the problem; if what you're saying isn't actually true, then you're not telling the truth.

Lucky you're always there to tell me what the truth is.