Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Rare Truth]

It's not clear what he means, though. It sounds like he is talking about the timing of the shot, and not the head injuries. Or does he mean the "scoot away" part?

Considering the line of questioning, it's pretty darn clear it's regarding the head injuries.

Especially if you actually saw the testimony and the next question:


O’MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don’t they?

Dale; The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was.

 

[Rare Truth]

What is this obsession with bandages? Clearly, the photo shows injuries that should have been bandaged.
...

Wow, You're stating here the EMTs at the scene were so inept they did not recognize whether the lacerations required bandaging him before clearing him?

Do you realize what you're saying here?

 

[Cylinder]

Wow, You're stating here the EMTs at the scene were so inept they did not recognize whether the lacerations required bandaging him before clearing him?

Do you realize what you're saying here?

If the EMTs claimed that the injuries he sustained in those photos didn't require bandages, then yes - they should be fired today. They never said that, though. Follow up treatment isn't really their responsibility and he was kind of in the middle of something. The EMT, if they were doing their job, advised Zimmerman to be transported to the ER for concussion screening. I'm guessing that either Zimmerman declined treatment and signed off, or the responder dropped the ball a bit given the larger issues at hand.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Considering the line of questioning, it's pretty darn clear it's regarding the head injuries.

Especially if you actually saw the testimony and the next question:


O’MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don’t they?

Dale; The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was.

O'MARA: Could that be cement?

GILBREATH: Could be.

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent?

GILBREATH: I said it was.

So ... yeah. What exactly is inconsistent ? I can't figure out what Gilbreath was trying to claim, and I don't find it obvious. Please elaborate.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I'm suggesting there's no evidence Zimmerman broke his nose during the altercation with Martin. What happened after that is anyone's guess.

Up until I found out that Zimmerman's friend said that he didn't know his nose was broken until the next day, I assumed the EMT report would indicate that it was. But now we know it won't.

My guess is the EMT report will show a possible fractured/broken nose, and that the EMT's recommended going to the hospital, and GZ declined.

I agree that the friends statement leads me to believe there was probably no confirmation of a broken nose by the EMTs on the scene.

JK - go out on a limb - we all understand you don't know what happened - based on what you do know today - do you believe GZ had a broken nose when he was examined by the EMTs or no ?

 

[LTC8K6]

Wow, You're stating here the EMTs at the scene were so inept they did not recognize whether the lacerations required bandaging him before clearing him?

Do you realize what you're saying here?

Zimmerman refusing treatment of the nose and the wounds is all that is required to explain the lack of bandages that night.

 

[LTC8K6]

Considering the line of questioning, it's pretty darn clear it's regarding the head injuries.

Especially if you actually saw the testimony and the next question:


O’MARA: The injuries seem to be consistent with his story, though, don’t they?

Dale; The injuries are consistent with a harder object striking the back of his head than his head was.

If they are going to say GZ struck himself with his gun, they will only look foolish.

I bet that's what Corey suggests, too.

The reason I say that is because it doesn't matter if the wounds were caused by something like a sprinkler head, or the sidewalk.

If TM banged GZ's head on the sidewalk a few times, and then GZ was able to wriggle off of the sidewalk so that TM was then banging his head on a sprinkler head, and it was actually the sprinkler that caused the cuts, that is a trivial inconsistency.

When GZ gets up, he is going to think the wounds were caused by the sidewalk, and that's what he would likely say. Anyone would think the concrete caused the wounds, rather than a plastic sprinkler head.

The main thing is that TM was banging GZ's head on an object hard enough to do serious damage, imo.

 

[Rare Truth]

O'MARA: Could that be cement?

GILBREATH: Could be.

O'MARA: Did you just say it was consistent or did you say it wasn't consistent?

GILBREATH: I said it was.

So ... yeah. What exactly is inconsistent ? I can't figure out what Gilbreath was trying to claim, and I don't find it obvious. Please elaborate.

Gilbreath was being coy, but he had to answer the question as asked.

What it reads to me, and I'm betting this will be proved out, is that they has evidence that will prove his injuries were not caused by 'cement bashing.'

 

[Rare Truth]

Zimmerman refusing treatment of the nose and the wounds is all that is required to explain the lack of bandages that night.

Well, we know that didn't happen, so I'm not sure why you bothered to post that.

 

[Unabogie]

So with the discovery of Zimmerman's MySpace page, we now have two confirmed sources where Zimmerman makes racist statements or posts racist pictures. He posted the photo of the vandalized community center and railed about "Mexicans with knives". He boasted about his ability to call in his friends to commit violence and that they would not rat him out so he "wouldn't get pinched". If that Twitter account was also his, he also said "White People, wake up!". He assaulted a cop, assaulted a women he called his "ex hoe", and boasted about how he was beating the rap.

And yet people want to hand wave away all of this history and claim that the unarmed kid was the aggressor, who had trouble with rules and authority, and was the likely instigator and not the freak who appointed himself protector of the nieghborhood and chased after an innocent kid with his gun?

Oh, I forgot. Trayvon once flipped off his webcam and got suspended from school for weed, so same/same.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, we know that didn't happen, so I'm not sure why you bothered to post that.

[qimg]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y221/who007/zimmerman3.jpg[/qimg]

We know what didn't happen? I don't know what happened at all. All I can do is go with possibilities.

Zimmerman could well have refused any further treatment after the medics initially cleaned him up and stopped his bleeding.

The wounds could be just starting to bleed again as he is led into the police station. That would explain a number of things.

Such as why there's only a little blood on his head. Maybe the wounds have just started to bleed again.

Such as why the police would put him in the car with his head bleeding. Well, maybe his head wasn't bleeding after the medics treated him.

It's all just speculation, anyway.

One thing for sure, there are reports on all of this with the facts in them. All we really need to do is wait.

 

[LTC8K6]

So with the discovery of Zimmerman's MySpace page, we now have two confirmed sources where Zimmerman makes racist statements or posts racist pictures. He posted the photo of the vandalized community center and railed about "Mexicans with knives". He boasted about his ability to call in his friends to commit violence and that they would not rat him out so he "wouldn't get pinched". If that Twitter account was also his, he also said "White People, wake up!". He assaulted a cop, assaulted a women he called his "ex hoe", and boasted about how he was beating the rap.

And yet people want to hand wave away all of this history and claim that the unarmed kid was the aggressor, who had trouble with rules and authority, and was the likely instigator and not the freak who appointed himself protector of the nieghborhood and chased after an innocent kid with his gun?

Oh, I forgot. Trayvon once flipped off his webcam and got suspended from school for weed, so same/same.

If one comes in, so does the other. If there are myspace posts or tweets attesting to Trayvon's bad character, they would come in too.

I do find it hard to believe the old Zimmerman stuff would be found relevant, but you never know.

I don't think we have seen Trayvon's Myspace stuff, so I don't know about that.

 

[Rare Truth]

We know he was treated by EMT and cleared. If there were *any* - ANY need for a bandage, a bandage would have been applied. EMT's don't leave gaping wounds open. Sheesh. What's wrong with you?

He is seen in the video some 35 minutes after the incident in that police video - which then shows him walking for about 6 minutes through doors and halls. There's no 'later' bleeding.

 

[Freddy]

If one comes in, so does the other. If there are myspace posts or tweets attesting to Trayvon's bad character, they would come in too.

I do find it hard to believe the old Zimmerman stuff would be found relevant, but you never know.

I don't think we have seen Trayvon's Myspace stuff, so I don't know about that.

I seriously doubt that any of this stuff will come in. It's general character evidence that would be highly prejudicial and that has little if any probative value. There's nothing wrong with taking it into account on a message board, but it isn't going to be admissible in court.

That said, caution should be exercised in placing great importance on this sort of evidence, even on a message board. It tends to cause people to base their opinions on general dislike for one party or the other, rather than on evidence of what actually happened. Character evidence can have probative value, but in assessing it one must be careful not to let one's visceral reactions cause one to give it more weight than is warranted.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Gilbreath was being coy, but he had to answer the question as asked.

What it reads to me, and I'm betting this will be proved out, is that they has evidence that will prove his injuries were not caused by 'cement bashing.'

Fair enough. Do you believe that will be because of the location of the body not being consistent with the head bashing/shooting story, or something else ?

 

[curi0us]

How do you conclude from the evidence that TM approached GZ's vehicle with intent and did not just happen to walk past the car?

Seriously.

"he's just walking around, looking about."

"he was just staring."

"looking at all the houses."

"Now he's just staring at me."

"now he's coming towards me."

"Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out,"

"I don't know what his deal is."

"How long till you get an officer over here?"

Proof provided with direct quotes as asked.

That's a description of a person who had a definite reaction to GZ and "approached GZ's vehicle with intent". If TM was just walking along a path that took him towards GZ's truck then there shouldn't have been the moments where GZ said "now he's coming towards me" and "he's coming to check me out".

Additionally, the courtroom testiomony of the the police and prosecutor of what GZ stated is further evidence.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he, Mr. Zimmerman, the defendant, at one point claim to the police that he was scared because Mr. Martin started circling his car?

GILBREATH: Yes.

(A discussion about what exactly TM's intent was or questions about GZ's credibility are more complicated and I don't want to jump ahead to that before setting up foundation for that discussion.)

I am arguing there is most definitely evidence that TM "did not just happen to walk past the car."

Do you still disagree?

 

[Rare Truth]

Fair enough. Do you believe that will be because of the location of the body not being consistent with the head bashing/shooting story, or something else ?

Yes.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Anyone hear what time TM was seen on the 7-11 security cameras? My search turned up an article I'm not sure about the credibility of but suggests it's might be a critical detail:



Again, I'm not sure how credible that source is but if the author is correct about TM being at the 7/11 at between 6 and 6:30 that's that will be proof that TM didn't just goto the store and head back. Nothing criminal about that at all but it does alter the narrative somewhat.

Also, the error in the original story that TM went out for snacks during the NBA All star game half-time is looking like a glaring mistake to me as if anyone actually knew what TM was doing they wouldn't have gotten that detail messed up.

Also confirmed here:

http://www.wesh.com/r/30841174/detail.html
(that's nbc in orlando)

A corporate spokeswoman for 7-Eleven said on Thursday they have a video secured at corporate headquarters showing Martin the night he was killed.

An executive with 7-Eleven viewed the tape and can confirm: "he observed an African American male in a hoodie purchase Skittles and an iced tea between 6 and 6:30 that evening."

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

If that Twitter account was also his, he also said "White People, wake up!".

And if that bogus account on Twitter that said "burn the Jews" was legit it means he's a Nazi too! And if the other bogus account on Twitter that said "I beat my hoes" was legit it means he likes to beat women! Oh me on my!

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Yes.

Thank you.