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General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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Bluespaceoddity said:
You pick "A handsome man" from the text of that statement. I don't get it. What is questionable about that?
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That man was Jewish.

Thus, it is impossible for him to have been handsome. If you believe that Jews look like the Nazi caricatures, that is.
 
Clayton Moore said:
The bottom line is that the scenarios the big Dog explained require responsibility and trust. Two behaviors that are not possible under the "intolerable" conditions the Germans are said to have made the norm in the camps.
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Another reminder about these alleged Transit and resettlement centers established for jewish R &R etc. A third try I believe. We live in hope.!

(1)Records of International Red Cross Visits. Am sure the SS and RHSA would of welcomed them to dispel unfounded and scurrilous rumours.?

(2) Camp Administrative personal memoirs , diaries. documents etc?

(3) Jewish "Re-settlers "personal memoirs and accounts. There's got to be something out there surely ?

(4) Camp guards and Commandants accounts and reminisces etc .?

If no to the above then why not.?
 
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I concede some of the points made by revisionists that history may have been doctored to make some cases look much worse than they really were. IOW perhaps some of the gas chambers that were documented as "evidence" in actuality were not really gas chambers but showers or delousing rooms. I can see how in history mistakes are made, false ideas built up into cultural truths etc. And I can see how urban legends are born and how difficult it is to get people to look at the facts.

However the Holocaust as an attempted genocide against the Jews cannot be denied, it did not start in the gas chambers, for many it ended there. But the laws that came into play years before the war took off, make it clear that there was a deliberate and violent aim to "get rid of the Jews" by death or other means. Death being the cheapest during a war seems to have been the go to choice.

For a revisionist to deny this just smacks of willful ignorance. When that goes on in a discussion I just stop wasting my time.

http://www.fold3.com/page/83002459_kristallnachtthe_night_of_broken/
 
truethat said:
I concede some of the points made by revisionists that history may have been doctored to make some cases look much worse than they really were. IOW perhaps some of the gas chambers that were documented as "evidence" in actuality were not really gas chambers but showers or delousing rooms. I can see how in history mistakes are made, false ideas built up into cultural truths etc. And I can see how urban legends are born and how difficult it is to get people to look at the facts.
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What are some of the "points" made by "revisionists" that you "concede?" Do you have any evidence that "history" has been "doctored?" You "can see" how mistakes in history are made and how "false ideas" are built up into "truths?" Can you "see" this by looking at evidence or is it your raging antisemitism blinding you to the evidence that allows you to "see" this? When has a "shower" or a "delousing" room ever been claimed to be a gas chamber when it was not? What evidence do you have of this? More importantly, so what? So what if history has been doctored or if false ideas are accepted as true or if a couple of million tourists are told a shower room is a gas chamber when it wasn't?

However the Holocaust as an attempted genocide against the Jews cannot be denied,
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YOU JUST DID!! You just denied the holocaust and we all saw it!!! Don't think your seemingly reasonable approach is not recognized by all of us as the unrepentant hate that it is. A willingness to keep an open mind and a rigid fact-based knowledge system is anathema to the study of the holocaust and can only be a product of hatred of the Joos.

it did not start in the gas chambers, for many it ended there. But the laws that came into play years before the war took off, make it clear that there was a deliberate and violent aim to "get rid of the Jews" by death or other means. Death being the cheapest during a war seems to have been the go to choice.

For a revisionist to deny this just smacks of willful ignorance. When that goes on in a discussion I just stop wasting my time.

http://www.fold3.com/page/83002459_kristallnachtthe_night_of_broken/
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Ha Ha. I'm just messin' with you! You say you don't deny the holocaust but that's what they all say. The truth is nobody denies the holocaust. The holocaust is not a single monolithic gigantic one-time event that can be denied or not denied. It was tens of thousands of little events that happened to millions of people throughout all of Europe and beyond over a period of several years. Unfortunately this is one topic where the majority of people are unable to make a distinction between the concept of "some of it didn't happen" and "it didn't happen." You could say, for example, that 1.1 million Japanese civilians weren't vaporized at Hiroshima without being accused of denying World War II. But if you say the evidence of 1.1 million Jews being gassed at Auschwitz isn't as solid as most people believe it is, well, you're saying that nothing bad happened to the Jews in Europe during World War II. If you say that perhaps some of the gas chambers that were documented as "evidence" in actuality were not really gas chambers but showers or delousing rooms, you're saying there were no gas chambers. If you say there were no gas chambers, you're saying there was no holocaust. It is stupid but that is the way it is.

I initially thought this poll was kind of worthless but it has yielded an interesting result. More than 85% of the respondents say they don't know enough or care enough about holocaust denial to participate in a holocaust denial discussion but they know it's wrong anyway. I wonder how these eighty five percenters would define the holocaust and how many of them can tell us what it is about the holocaust that the "deniers" actually "deny" and why they "deny" it?
 
Yes to your first point. Many of the "gas chambers" that are designated on tours were not actually used as gas chambers. That doesn't mean they didn't exist or that they weren't used in other formats. But I can see why it would be disconcerting to those wanting the actual truth to be told. History is rife with examples of distortion of the truth. That is nothing new. The deniers are good examples of why it is very important to always be honest in presenting history.
 
truethat said:
Yes to your first point. Many of the "gas chambers" that are designated on tours were not actually used as gas chambers. That doesn't mean they didn't exist or that they weren't used in other formats. But I can see why it would be disconcerting to those wanting the actual truth to be told. History is rife with examples of distortion of the truth. That is nothing new. The deniers are good examples of why it is very important to always be honest in presenting history.
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Why do you think those lies are being told? Why do people lie to begin with?

Are you familiar with fabrications and lies told "witnesses" at the war trials?

Most of the poll voters voted by political correctness as you probably did.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Why do you think those lies are being told?
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For the same reasons as for absolutely every other historical event.

*you're* the one who holds the Holocaust to a different standard.
Clayton Moore said:
Why do people lie to begin with?
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Well, in your case, it appears that the reason is to be able to pretend that your irrational hatred of Jews is somehow justified, and the lies are simply a means to that end.
Clayton Moore said:
Are you familiar with fabrications and lies told "witnesses" at the war trials?
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Yes.

None of which changed in the slightest the *facts* of the matter.

Now, who is it that you claim lied to the witnesses, and what (other than your desperate and impotent need to deny history) do you offer to substantiate this accusation?
 
Marras said:
That man was Jewish.

Thus, it is impossible for him to have been handsome. If you believe that Jews look like the Nazi caricatures, that is.
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Yeah that's it.

It's certainly not the stupidity of him bringing up that the guy was handsome and his good looks was the reason he was chosen to be a kapo.


Then, instead of saying he forgot the guys name, he said he never got the guys name.

Dick and Jane stories are more realistic.
 
Fact there were thriving jewish communities in most of Europe prior to WW2

Fact After WW2 most of those communites in Eastern Europe had disappeared from the face of the Earth, that disappearance was nothing to do with standard military operations.

Fact systematic destruction of jewish communites by the SS and Werhmancht is recorded and documented as occuring, and the notes of the Wannasee conference are freely avaialble.

The Wanasee conference was the meeting to discuss the mass murder of Europes jewish population.

I have visited the villa where it was held just outside Berlin and I reccommend that anyone goes there to see the banality of evil made real.

http://www.ghwk.de/ghwk/engl/kopfengl.htm
 
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Clayton Moore said:
You're among those who insist after million Jewish people were murdered in the camps, meaning they were never heard from again, millions of Jewish people kept going to the camps, none the wiser, till the end of the war.

That's saying those millions of Jewish people were stupid.

There was mail to and from the camps. People got paid for work in the camps.
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Then what happened to them? Did they vanish?
 
Clayton Moore said:
You're among those who insist after million Jewish people were murdered in the camps, meaning they were never heard from again, millions of Jewish people kept going to the camps, none the wiser, till the end of the war.

That's saying those millions of Jewish people were stupid.

There was mail to and from the camps. People got paid for work in the camps.
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I once read on the internet that they were stupid because they figured they were just off to a holiday camp for a few years of fun in the sun, bingo and talent contests.
 
They got shot, gassed, worked and starved to death over a period of 4 years in thousands of camps right across Europe
 
Multivac said:
I hadn't realised it was so close to Berlin. Hope to be visiting Berlin in October, so will add this to my list of places to visit. Thanks.
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Its well worth it and the surrounding area is beuatiful too which is a counterpoint to the horrendous dark evil that was discussed in the villa, there is an art gallery close by that is worth a visit too.

And here is one of the documents

http://www.ghwk.de/engl/protengl.htm
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Yeah that's it.

It's certainly not the stupidity of him bringing up that the guy was handsome and his good looks was the reason he was chosen to be a kapo.


Then, instead of saying he forgot the guys name, he said he never got the guys name.

Dick and Jane stories are more realistic.
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Are you sure he wasn't chosen as a Kapo because he was a dentist, not because he was handsome? Can you show us where in his description of this event Rajchman explains why the man was chosen to be a Kapo?
 
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