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General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

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LemmyCaution said:
In addition to Nick's excellent summary of the changes in National Socialist forced labor policy, there is also a microhistory of forced labor in various settings during the Third Reich. Take the case of death camp Treblinka. As long ago as 1965 the peculiar division of labor at Treblinka was outlined in the judgment of the Court of Assizes in Dusseldorf in the trial of Kurt Franz and nine others (First Treblinka Trial) (AZ-LG Düsseldorf: - II-931638, p. 49 ff., September 3, 1965). The Germans at Treblinka

As to Clayton's strawmen of trust and volition, a postwar article written by survivor Samuel Rajzman is relevant:
Rajzman also gave examples of differing reactions of Jews brought to Treblinka of roles they were compelled to play:
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Rajzman also gave examples of differing reactions of Jews brought to Treblinka of roles they were compelled to play:
Quote:
One day they brought in a Czech transport. The Polish Jews came in cattle cars; the Czechs came in Pullman cars. You could see from their clothing and behavior that there were some highly educated people among them. There was an elderly man of about 60, who kept yelling that he couldn’t leave because his equipment was in the Pullman car. It was very specialized equipment, and if he couldn’t supervise its unloading it would all be broken. Well, 20 minutes later he was on the fire grate.
From that transport, they took six or eight people out to work. They took one handsome man, 30 or 35 years old, a dentist from Prague. The Germans took him aside and told him that he would be a kapo. He didn’t know what a kapo was. He had come with his wife and child; they had taken away his wife and child right there, on the arrival square.
Two hours later we went into the barrack. This Czech was lying near me on the boards. He started to talk to me and said, “What happened to my wife and child?”
I said, “Don’t you know what’s going on here? You see the 24hour-a-day fire over there.
He then asked, “What is this kapo that I’m supposed to become tomorrow morning?”
So I told him what a kapo was supposed to do.
He said, “What happens if I tell the Scharführer that I don’t want to be a kapo?”
“Well, then they’ll send you where your wife is.”
He didn’t say anything. I fell into a troubled sleep. I got up in the middle of the night. I looked up and saw him hanging there. Rather than become a kapo, he had hanged himself with his belt. I never knew his name. There were many who didn’t want to be kapos and were sent away to the fire.
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Pure idiocy. A handsome man? aahhahahhahahha

http://www.whale.to/b/samuel_rajzman.html

Breach of rule 4 removed. Do not copy and paste material from elsewhere.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles


http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/new-book-about-a-polish-jew-who-survived-seven-nazi-camps/
According to Rajzman’s testimony at Nuremberg, “When Treblinka became very well known, they hung up a huge sign with the inscription Obermaidanek.” Maidanek was the German name for Majdanek; it was a concentration camp on the outskirts of Lublin, the headquarters of the Operation Reinhard camps. Rajzman explained that “the persons who arrived in transports soon found out that it was not a fashionable station, but that it was a place of death” and for this reason, the sign was intended to calm the victims.

In spite of all this effort to reassure the victims, the SS soldiers at Treblinka were allegedly allowed to grab babies from the arms of their mothers and bash their heads in. The first person to be tried for war crimes committed at Treblinka was Josef Hirtreiter, who was put on trial in a German court in Frankfurt am Main, and sentenced on March 3, 1951 to life in prison. Based on the testimony of survivors, Hirtreiter was found guilty of killing young children at Treblinka, during the unloading of the trains, by holding them by the feet and smashing their heads against the boxcars.
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Lurkers and liars note the lies testified at the trials that earned the Zionists billions in reparations and stigmatized Germans to this day. Let alone the slaughter of millions of German civilians for many years after the war ended.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
<spam snipped>

Lurkers and liars note the lies testified at the trials that earned the Zionists billions in reparations and stigmatized Germans to this day. Let alone the slaughter of millions of German civilians for many years after the war ended.
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The slaughter of millions of German civilians for many years after the war ended?

For how many years, how many millions, and would you please provide some proof of this allegation - actual evidence, not simply cut and paste jobs from conspiraloon or Nazi websites. Thank you.
 
Nick Terry said:
The slaughter of millions of German civilians for many years after the war ended?

For how many years, how many millions, and would you please provide some proof of this allegation - actual evidence, not simply cut and paste jobs from conspiraloon or Nazi websites. Thank you.
Click to expand...


Once again Team Holocaust hides behind liars and fabricators like scumbag
Samuel Rajzman.
 
Nick Terry said:
The slaughter of millions of German civilians for many years after the war ended?

For how many years, how many millions, and would you please provide some proof of this allegation - actual evidence, not simply cut and paste jobs from conspiraloon or Nazi websites. Thank you.
Click to expand...

Look it up.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Pure idiocy. A handsome man? aahhahahhahahha

http://www.whale.to/b/samuel_rajzman.html



http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/08/21/new-book-about-a-polish-jew-who-survived-seven-nazi-camps/


Lurkers and liars note the lies testified at the trials that earned the Zionists billions in reparations and stigmatized Germans to this day. Let alone the slaughter of millions of German civilians for many years after the war ended.
Click to expand...

Single line responses to several paragraphs of text, and several unbacked claims. Same ol'.


Clayton Moore said:
Once again Team Holocaust hides behind liars and fabricators like scumbag
Samuel Rajzman.
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Did you actually read the post, or did you just see red?

Clayton Moore said:
Look it up.
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So you can't provide evidence, or you don't want to? Because an unsupported claim is worthless.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Lurkers and liars note the lies testified at the trials that earned the Zionists billions in reparations and stigmatized Germans to this day. Let alone the slaughter of millions of German civilians for many years after the war ended.
Click to expand...

Are you referring to the expulsion of many Volkesdeutsch from Eastern Europe at the end of WWII? You may be interested to know that the process was begun by the Germans as the Soviets advanced.

Apparently, the Nazis expected the Soviets to treat ethnic Germans like they had treated untermenschen during their advance into the USSR. Funny that. (Not really. My next door neighbour growing up was a Volksdeutsch from Roumania originally, moved to Northern Germany in early '45. She emigrated to Canada with her husband in the 50s)
 
ANTPogo said:
Where should we look, Clayton?
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Also, why? We've repeatedly directed him to specific books as evidence, and he hasn't read them, yet when asked for proof of his claim, all he has is a vague "look it up".


Mondial said:
I was simply pointing out that as the holocaust is a lie ( see www.holocaustdenialvideos.com and www.holocaustdenier.com ) it is also a lie to say that the nazis had a deliberate policy to mistreat soviet pows.
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When I was younger, I assumed the Titanic soundtrack was the best selling soundtrack of all time because Titanic was then the best-selling film of all time.

Fallacy of Composition, Mondy.
 
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000063 said:
Also, why? We've repeatedly directed him to specific books as evidence, and he hasn't read them, yet when asked for proof of his claim, all he has is a vague "look it up".


When I was younger, I assumed the Titanic soundtrack was the best selling soundtrack of all time because Titanic was then the best-selling film of all time.

Fallacy of Composition, Mondy.
Click to expand...

I see nothing has changed.
 
ANTPogo said:
What books do you recommend I read, Clayton, so I may learn more about this "slaughter of millions of German civilians for many years after the war ended"?
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Oh, *do* please let CM be talking about "Other Losses".


Please?


The claws are getting dull...
 
Clayton Moore said:
The bottom line is that the scenarios the big Dog explained require responsibility and trust. Two behaviors that are not possible under the "intolerable" conditions the Germans are said to have made the norm in the camps.
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On May 2, 2011, LemmyCaution referenced Herman Langbein's "People in Auschwitz". Both LemmyCaution's post and the referenced work deal with the various motivations of people in the camps.

One month afterwards he brought up Raul Hilberg for his writing about conditions in the camps. I made note of Hilberg's reference to Dr. E.A. Cohen's book "Human behavior in the Concentrationcamp" in a follow up.

On May 2 2011 you had already waved your hands and leaped from Nick Terry's observations to:
"While looking up Kanadakommando I found this testimony.
Screaming corpses aside, see how many blatant lies you can find."
http://www.degob.hu/english/index.php?showjk=3523
In its original language:
http://www.degob.hu/english/index.php?showjk_img_full=3523&page=3
"Screaming corpses" Do you seriously think that's what she was saying in that passage?

Aside from that, the observations, about the operation of the camps, including remarks about the role SS-Doctors, Nick Terry made back then appear to have completely escaped your mind now that you try to make the thread swing back in that direction. Did you really think your one word dismissal settled it?

The list of your odd reactions is so long that these examples may appear arbitrary to other posters but each and every comment you post shows that you have a tendency to pick lines from statements that don't indicate a problem in the material but rather a problem with the way you "analyze" it.

Today you treat us to this:
Clayton Moore said:
Pure idiocy. A handsome man? aahhahahhahahha
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You pick "A handsome man" from the text of that statement. I don't get it. What is questionable about that?
Parody?
One year's progress?
 
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