Richard Gage Blueprint for Truth Rebuttals on YouTube by Chris Mohr

Status
Not open for further replies.
true but the military had fighters in the air within 12 minutes of the first hijack notice. this was before the impact of the first plane i beleive.
What happened after that? There were planes within 1 minute flight time of the pentagon and the plane was being tracked both on radar and apparently by a C130 yet no intercept?
That strains credability a little bit don't ya think? Certainly does cause some questions to be asked i would think.

I made a chart of the timeline somewhere in this forum. I believe you're wrong.


ETA: Yeah, you're wrong.

Here are the posts where I posted the timelines and described the details:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7824195&postcount=142
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7837892&postcount=186
 
Last edited:
Except the failure in all three buildings was progressive....

No they didn't. They said the fire made 7 fail. Progressively....

You are aware that NIST did more than just plug numbers into a computer, right? It is literally impossible, even today, to model the collapse perfectly.

I've noticed that you rarely answer direct questions, preferring to swoop in and swipe at assertions made to others. Why is that? What is your definition of "strongly" in the sense you used it in your earlier statement?

And what would a non-progressive collapse look like?

MM

:rolleyes:

Seriously, do you even have a point here? You said something catchy about a "perfect storm of targeted destruction," but you didn't demonstrate anything "targeted" about it.
 
true but the military had fighters in the air within 12 minutes of the first hijack notice. this was before the impact of the first plane i beleive.
What happened after that? There were planes within 1 minute flight time of the pentagon and the plane was being tracked both on radar and apparently by a C130 yet no intercept?
That strains credability a little bit don't ya think? Certainly does cause some questions to be asked i would think.

You did not get anything right, how can your claims get close to supporting your credibility claims? Is this a talking point related to the OP? Are you on topic? You know nothing about intercepts, the military, 911, aircraft, flight, and more - all exposed in one post.
 
I don't believe the conspiracy theory about 19 misfits getting by our military but I'm surprised to hear that you don't either.
Have you seen anything that shows the FAA ("first responders" for a hijacking) and NORAD had specifically trained for an incident like what occurred on 9/11 prior to 9/11? This includes the handoff between organizations, of course. Also, include the different airport security organizations and airlines as far as the initial "getting by".
 
when did the Military get in their way? The whole point of a surprise attack is that your opponent is not ready for you. the terrorists calculated that the US Military would be too slow to react to a novel threat and they were right.
You completely missed the point which is:


What you believe is a CONSPIRACY THEORY.

Therefore

You are a CONSPIRACY THEORIST.


ETA: I'm still waiting for Chris Mohr to address the FACT that the exterior columns in Figure 12-62 and the simulation video had buckled ~20-25 feet and had not broken, which means they were still providing resistance beyond the 7 feet of descent in Stage 1 and well into the FFA of Stage 2.
 
Last edited:
And what would a non-progressive collapse look like?

MM
Ah ah ah. You're the one saying the collapse was total (i.e. global) instead of progressive. You back it up. If that is not your claim, and you believe that the collapse was progressive and meant that the entire building collapsed, simply say so and I'll apologize.

Why are you not asking what a progressive collapse looks like? A collapse that progresses from one or multiple areas to others.

I also note you ignored most of the rest of my post to nitpick at minor details, Ergo-style.
 
when did the Military get in their way? The whole point of a surprise attack is that your opponent is not ready for you. the terrorists calculated that the US Military would be too slow to react to a novel threat and they were right.
That's what I don't get about Twoofers, they deny a simple plot and create a vastly more complex one and claim its more likely.

There is something about complexity that they find compelling......:confused:
And how would they have calculated that? Flight school?
"No. Simple research. What was the fastest intercept before 9/11?"

Simple research in 2001?

Google only actively started a few years earlier in 1998 and didn't issue an IPO until 2004.

Are you suggesting that in 2001, the military had openly published all their interception timings?

That they broadcast their national defense limitations to all would-be plane hijackers?

On top of this, it has already been established that the U.S. military did have time to make the intercepts, and that they had considered possible suicide attack scenarios with hijacked aircraft.

MM
 
Last edited:
Simple research in 2001?

Google only actively started a few years earlier in 1998 and didn't issue an IPO until 2004.

Are are suggesting that in 2001, the military had openly published all their interception timings?

That they broadcast their national defense limitations to all would-be plane hijackers?

On top of this, it has already been established that the U.S. military did have time to make the intercepts, and that they had considered possible suicide attack scenarios with hijacked aircraft.

MM
You are talking again as if as soon as the terrorists announced they took over the planes, pilots were hopping into aircraft to intercept them.
Take a look again at Sabertooth's published timeline.

Extra credit: successfully compare "considered possible suicide attack scenarios" with "trained to react to them in a joint operation with the FAA".
 
No. Simple research. What was the fastest intercept before 9/11?

Let's help him out.

On October 25, 1999, Learjet 35, registration N47BA, operated by Sunjet Aviation, Inc., of Sanford, Florida, departed Orlando (IATA: MCO, ICAO: KMCO) at 1319Z (0919 EDT) on a two-day, five-flight trip. Before departure, the aircraft had been fueled with 5,300 lb (2,400 kg) of Jet A, enough for 4 hours and 45 minutes of flight. On board were two pilots and four passengers.[1]

At 1327:13Z, the controller from the Jacksonville ARTCC instructed the pilot to climb and maintain flight level (FL) 390 (39,000 feet (12,000 m) above sea level). At 1327:18Z (0927:18 EDT), the pilot acknowledged the clearance by stating, "three nine zero bravo alpha." This was the last known radio transmission from the airplane, and occurred while the aircraft was passing through 23,000 feet (7,000 m). The next attempt to contact the aircraft occurred six minutes, 20 seconds later (14 minutes after departure), with the aircraft at 36,500 feet (11,100 m), and the controller's message went unacknowledged. The controller attempted to contact N47BA five more times in the next 4½ minutes, again with no answer.[1]

About 1454Z (now 0954 CDT due to the flight's crossing into the Central Time zone), a U.S. Air Force F-16 test pilot from the 40th Flight Test Squadron at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, who happened to be in the air nearby, was directed by controllers to intercept N47BA. When the fighter was about 2,000 feet (610 m) from the Learjet, at an altitude of about 46,400 feet (14,100 m), the test pilot made two radio calls to N47BA but did not receive a response. The F-16 pilot made a visual inspection of the Lear, finding no visible damage to the airplane. Both engines were running, and the plane's red rotating anti-collision beacon was on (standard operation for aircraft in flight). The fighter pilot could not see inside the passenger section of the airplane because the windows seemed to be dark. Further, he stated that the entire right cockpit windshield was opaque, as if condensation or ice covered the inside. He also indicated that the left cockpit windshield was opaque, although several sections of the center of the windshield seemed to be only thinly covered by condensation or ice; a small rectangular section of the windshield was clear, with only a small section of the glare shield visible through this area. He did not see any flight control movement. About 1512Z, the F-16 pilot concluded his inspection of N47BA and broke formation, proceeding to Scott AFB, Illinois.[

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_South_Dakota_Learjet_crash#Flight_chronology

Because of the 1-hour time difference between EDT and CDT, the total time elapsed between the last transmission from Payne Stewart's plane and the first interception was 1 hour+27 minutes .
 
Simple research in 2001?

Google only actively started a few years earlier in 1998 and didn't issue an IPO until 2004.

I know this maybe hard for you to believe but, research did take place before Google.

:rolleyes:

Are you suggesting that in 2001, the military had openly published all their interception timings?
Yes they did. FAA incident reports have been public from the time the agency was created.

That they broadcast their national defense limitations to all would-be plane hijackers?
Why would they do that? You need more straw to stuff that suit?

Procedures on the other hand are just as public as they are today. Pilots kind of have to know what not to do so they can avoid doing it.

:rolleyes:


On top of this, it has already been established that the U.S. military did have time to make the intercepts, and that they had considered possible suicide attack scenarios with hijacked aircraft.

MM

For one flight (UA 93) but it never made it close enough to do so (thanks to the passengers). Do you have a point with this?

You're not suggesting any other flights, are you? If so, show this "established".

:confused:
 
Last edited:
when did the Military get in their way? The whole point of a surprise attack is that your opponent is not ready for you. the terrorists calculated that the US Military would be too slow to react to a novel threat and they were right.
That's what I don't get about Twoofers, they deny a simple plot and create a vastly more complex one and claim its more likely.

There is something about complexity that they find compelling......:confused:

Really? They calculated? I wonder what their calculations were that enabled them plan to hijack 4 commercial airliners in a couple hours when there hadn't been a commercial airliner hijacked from a US airport since 1978.

What's that? Over 20 freaking years?
 
Really? They calculated? I wonder what their calculations were that enabled them plan to hijack 4 commercial airliners in a couple hours when there hadn't been a commercial airliner hijacked from a US airport since 1978.

What's that? Over 20 freaking years?

Good point! Many of the people in the FAA and NORAD who had real-world experience with hijackings had retired by 9/11. And none of them had experience with planes used as weapons!

Thanks for pointing that out! :D
 
Really? They calculated? I wonder what their calculations were that enabled them plan to hijack 4 commercial airliners in a couple hours when there hadn't been a commercial airliner hijacked from a US airport since 1978.

What's that? Over 20 freaking years?
I think you can do it on "Travelocity" actually.

:rolleyes:
 
Good point! Many of the people in the FAA and NORAD who had real-world experience with hijackings had retired by 9/11. And none of them had experience with planes used as weapons!

Thanks for pointing that out! :D

YW. But airport security and various improved security measures prevented hijackings for over 20 years,
 
YW. But airport security and various improved security measures prevented hijackings for over 20 years,

You forgot the 3rd method.

Blind luck.

How many times prior to 9/11 do you suppose people tried to hijack aircraft using box cutters, knives and balls of steel? I'm guessing zero.


They KNEW how they could get away with it, were twisted enough to try it and lucky enough (3 of 4 sucessful) to complete it.
 
On top of this, it has already been established that the U.S. military did have time to make the intercepts, and that they had considered possible suicide attack scenarios with hijacked aircraft.

MM

Are you under the impression that there are pilots with loaded jets sitting on the end of a runway at Otis, reading their newspapers and magazines waiting for something bad to happen in their backyard?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom