Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[LTC8K6]

It has not been transcribed anywhere, because this is a portion in the CNN transcription where they broke away to commercial. It was described as "circling" his car.

I transcribed it myself.

DE LA RIONDA: Did he, Mr. Zimmerman, the defendant, at one point claim to the police that he was scared because Mr. Martin started circling his car?

GILBREATH: Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: According to Mr. Zimmerman he was so scared he still got out of the car and chased Mr. Martin? Correct?

GILBREATH: He went after him,Yes.

DE LA RIONDA: And isn't it true, based on the evidence, Mr. Zimmerman had two flashlights with him?
GILBREATH: Yes.
<snip /tactical flashlight description>

DE LA RIONDA: Mr. Zimmerman never claimed that he chased - in terms of 'ran after' - Mr. Martin, is that correct?

GILBREATH: No.

DE LA RIONDA: But you still have, is it not true, a witness who describes someone chasing another person from the area where they ended up... in other words, from where, near where Mr. Martin lived to the area where the murder happened?

GILBREATH: Yes.
... ...
O'MARA; You had mentioned, the prosecutor had questioned you about Mr. Zimmerman saying that he was having his head hit on the back, correct?

GILBREATH:Yes.

O'MARA; I thought you said the evidence was inconsistent with that?

GILBREATH: No, I don't believe that was his question.

O'MARA; Oh, then let me ask you. Is the evidence inconstant with the suggestion by Mr. Zimmerman that he was his having his head hit or bashed on the ground?

GILBREATH: His injuries are consistent with trauma to the back of his head, yes.

O'MARA;Ok. What are those injuries?

GILBREATH: There's two lacerations to the back of his head

O'MARA; OK. Did you identify what caused those lacerations?

GILBREATH: No.

O'MARA: Could it have been having his head bashed on the ground as he testified to?

GILBREATH: He suggested, I don't know about testified to, he mentioned that his head was being physically bashed against the concrete sidewalk, and that he...this was just prior to him firing the shot, and that he managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk, and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found."
​

From the video testimony here: George Zimmerman bond hearing :: WRAL.com - Starts at about 1:46:39 (this portion)

One wonders how Gilbreath thinks the lacerations occurred then.

It's unclear what he thinks was inconsistent.

I think it is again the trivial. He thinks GZ's account of "scooting away" and then firing the shot is not exactly accurate. He doesn't think TM wasn't banging GZ's head on the sidewalk.

I can't imagine what evidence they would have about the exact timing of the shot so much later, that SPD didn't have that night.

Nor can I imagine any good way to determine the exact timing of the shot.

Well, there may be one way, and that's if you believe it's TM doing the yelling for help, and then you try to time the shot based on that, perhaps.

But it's almost certainly not TM doing the yelling for help, imo.

And there doesn't seem to be any way to dispute GZ's claim of being the one yelling and the witness who saw and heard him yelling from the bottom of the struggle.

 

[WildCat]

Yup, I agree, especially at a large high school they are likely to be School Resource Officers, who are sworn members of the local force.

That's what I figured at first too, untill I discovered that the Miami-Dade school district has their own police force. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami-Dade_County_Public_Schools_Police_Department

At any rate, the police have the jewelry, not the school.

 

[Moon-Spinner]

The media continue to fan the flames:
Trayvon Martin's killer raises more than $200,000 for defense

Nice headline. I guess just using his name (George Zimmerman, in case nobody has heard of him) wouldn't be sensationalistic enough! As far as the media, and half the population are concerned, there isn't any need for a trial either...

 

[Skepticemea]

The media continue to fan the flames:
Trayvon Martin's killer raises more than $200,000 for defense

Nice headline. I guess just using his name (George Zimmerman, in case nobody has heard of him) wouldn't be sensationalistic enough! As far as the media, and half the population are concerned, there isn't any need for a trial either...

Should it be "Trayvon Martin's suiciding assistant"?

 

[Rare Truth]

One wonders how Gilbreath thinks the lacerations occurred then.

It's unclear what he thinks was inconsistent.

I think it is again the trivial. He thinks GZ's account of "scooting away" and then firing the shot is not exactly accurate. He doesn't think TM wasn't banging GZ's head on the sidewalk.

I can't imagine what evidence they would have about the exact timing of the shot so much later, that SPD didn't have that night.

Nor can I imagine any good way to determine the exact timing of the shot.

Well, there may be one way, and that's if you believe it's TM doing the yelling for help, and then you try to time the shot based on that, perhaps.

But it's almost certainly not TM doing the yelling for help, imo.

And there doesn't seem to be any way to dispute GZ's claim of being the one yelling and the witness who saw and heard him yelling from the bottom of the struggle.

We know the exact time of the shot from the 911 calls.

That's been confirmed.

Also, the FBI has very good voice analysis techniques. It will be interesting to see if what they produce is allowed in court. Courts have accepted them in the past.

Personally, re: lacerations. I think George did not have his head pounded in the concrete, and I think crime scene evidence will be able to prove it.

 

[Rare Truth]

Evidence none of us have seen yet:

• EMT report
• Autopsy results
• Results of the blood spatter testing
• Gunshot residue on Trayvon's hands and body
• Testing of Zimmerman's clothing
• Sworn testimony of each witness
• Trajectory of the bullet
• Fingerprint (s) report on the gun
• Toxicology results
• DNA reports. Ex: Z's saliva on Trayvon's hands/ Z's DNA found under Trayvon's fingernails, etc...
• Sustained defensive wounds on Trayvon
• Voice analysis results of the FBI enhanced tapes
• Crime scene pictures, including location of truck, where the Skittles and Tea were found...and where blood evidence was found - or NOT found.
• Video of Z questioning the night of the shooting/next day reenactment
• Police pictures of his wounds.
• Statements made by Z that night

 

[TheL8Elvis]

They actually did repudiate it:

No they didn't. Their attorney did.
Remind me again why the parents need an attorney ? (actually, I think they have about 4)
Additionally, I don't lend their statements as much credence as you do after they said this:
“He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that. It wasn’t a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property],” Martin said, declining to offer more details.
Subsequently, A lawyer for the dead teen’s family acknowledged Trayvon had been suspended for graffiti.

It didn't come from the school as an institution, but rather an unnamed school police investigator.

So you've seen it ? It was an anonymous written report ? From the Miami-Dade police at the school ?

http://police.dadeschools.net/
Are School Police Officers really police officers?

Yes, School Police Officers are really police officers. They attended training just like any other officer and are certified by the State of Florida and regulated by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.


... the officer reported he found women’s jewelry and a screwdriver that he described as a “burglary tool,” according to a Miami-Dade Schools Police report obtained by The Miami Herald.

Another lawyer for the family said she didn’t put much credence in the report about the jewelry and the screwdriver.
“This is someone in a school writing a report, rumor as far as I’m concerned,” said attorney Natalie Jackson.

Of course, that someone is a Police Officer. Way to be dismissive of the Police Ms. Jackson.

There's actually no law against carrying a screwdriver, no matter how much you dress it up in inflammatory language. Proof of that is in the fact that Martin didn't get arrested.

Hey , GZ didn't get arrested the night he shot TM, it must have been legal ! Good job Johnny !

Furthermore, a gun is a lethal weapon that requires legal documentation to purchase and own. A screwdriver is a common household item you can easily purchase almost anywhere.
So yes, the law clearly sets a standard for determining which of those two items is innocuous, and it certainly isn't the gun.

You are trying hard, JK, You really are. But this is getting beyond silly.

 

[Dan O.]

This case is relevant why ?

is it not obvious from the context of the post I was responding to?

 

[LTC8K6]

We know the exact time of the shot from the 911 calls.

That's been confirmed.

Also, the FBI has very good voice analysis techniques. It will be interesting to see if what they produce is allowed in court. Courts have accepted them in the past.

Personally, re: lacerations. I think George did not have his head pounded in the concrete, and I think crime scene evidence will be able to prove it.

Timing, not time.

IIRC, we already know the FBI could make no determination of who was yelling for help. I think that is also in the transcript.

I think the current prosecutor is using the Mom's word about it being her son.

What do you think made the cuts on GZ's head? We have a photo of them taken within moments of the shot, and witnesses right on the scene at the time.

I have heard mention of sprinkler heads being there in the grass.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Evidence none of us have seen yet:

• EMT report
• Autopsy results
• Results of the blood spatter testing
• Gunshot residue on Trayvon's hands and body
• Testing of Zimmerman's clothing
• Sworn testimony of each witness
• Trajectory of the bullet
• Fingerprint (s) report on the gun
• Toxicology results
• DNA reports. Ex: Z's saliva on Trayvon's hands/ Z's DNA found under Trayvon's fingernails, etc...
• Sustained defensive wounds on Trayvon
• Voice analysis results of the FBI enhanced tapes
• Crime scene pictures, including location of truck, where the Skittles and Tea were found...and where blood evidence was found - or NOT found.
• Video of Z questioning the night of the shooting/next day reenactment
• Police pictures of his wounds.
• Statements made by Z that night

No, but we have seen some twitter accounts...

 

[LTC8K6]

No, but we have seen some twitter accounts...

In addition to the Twitter crime data, I also slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

is it not obvious from the context of the post I was responding to?

Not after reading the details of the case, no. Why is a state of MD no tolerance school policy relevant ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Also, the FBI has very good voice analysis techniques. It will be interesting to see if what they produce is allowed in court. Courts have accepted them in the past.

Gilbreath testified that the Sun Sentinel and FBI voice analysis were not useful to the case. I have no idea if that means it won't be brought into court, though.

Personally, re: lacerations. I think George did not have his head pounded in the concrete, and I think crime scene evidence will be able to prove it.

So what do you think the scenario was, then ?

 

[Rare Truth]

Timing, not time.

IIRC, we already know the FBI could make no determination of who was yelling for help. I think that is also in the transcript.

I think the current prosecutor is using the Mom's word about it being her son.

What do you think made the cuts on GZ's head? We have a photo of them taken within moments of the shot, and witnesses right on the scene at the time.

I have heard mention of sprinkler heads being there in the grass.

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on what one investigator said at the bond hearing re: the FBI tapes. They might not have been conclusive at that point, he may not have had all the information, etc.

The EMT reports and crime seen evidence trump any gauzy iPhone photo, IMO.

 

[Dan O.]

What do you think made the cuts on GZ's head? We have a photo of them taken within moments of the shot, and witnesses right on the scene at the time.

What did GZ have in his hand and what was he witnessed doing immediately after the shooting?

 

[LTC8K6]

I wouldn't place too much emphasis on what one investigator said at the bond hearing re: the FBI tapes. They might not have been conclusive at that point, he may not have had all the information, etc.

The EMT reports and crime seen evidence trump any gauzy iPhone photo, IMO.

They have no exemplar of Trayvon screaming, which limits them, I believe.

It's the time of the photo that's critical. The time stamp. It gives GZ no time to have faked the injuries, I think.

The scope of the injuries was recorded, so that is indeed just a matter of getting the records from the SFD, and from any doctors GZ might have seen.

O'mara is supposedly setting up a web site for info releases, so the defense may be releasing info soon to try to end this case early.

Much like Kirk Osborn and the defense team in the Duke LAX rape case, hopefully. Info wise, I mean. No telling about outcome yet, of course.

 

[LTC8K6]

What did GZ have in his hand and what was he witnessed doing immediately after the shooting?

I have no idea.

 

[Rare Truth]

Flashlight. Gun.

Witnessed: Touching the back of his head.

 

[LTC8K6]

Flashlight. Gun.

Witnessed: Touching the back of his head.

With the items?

A 6 inch flashlight is not big enough to bash your own head with. A PF-9 is a small gun as well. You could scratch your head with it, I think. But then you have to clean it thoroughly. It weighs about 13 ounces.

A person who has just had their head bashed on the sidewalk will be touching it a lot to see if the damage is bad.

 

[LTC8K6]

When did this witness come forward about GZ touching the back of his head though?

If it was five weeks later for the special prosecutor, that's going to look convenient.