War on Women in the Middle East

[Dessi]

Why do they hate us?:

In a crisp three-and-a-half pages, Rifaat lays out a trifecta of sex, death, and religion, a bulldozer that crushes denial and defensiveness to get at the pulsating heart of misogyny in the Middle East. There is no sugarcoating it. They don't hate us because of our freedoms, as the tired, post-9/11 American cliché had it. We have no freedoms because they hate us, as this Arab woman so powerfully says.

Yes: They hate us. It must be said. [...]

I turn again to Saudi Arabia, and not just because when I encountered the country at age 15 I was traumatized into feminism -- there's no other way to describe it -- but because the kingdom is unabashed in its worship of a misogynistic God and never suffers any consequences for it, thanks to its double-whammy advantage of having oil and being home to Islam's two holiest places, Mecca and Medina.

The article is describes numerous instances where women have been assaulted without consequence:

- Women endure genital mutilation to reduce their sexual desires.
- Its legal for men to beat women so long as they do so with "good intentions".
- A gang-rape survivor was sentence to jail for getting into a car with an unrelated male.
- Another woman was sentenced to 10 lashes for driving.
- 15 girls died in a school fire in Mecca because the "morality police" bared them feeling the building, and firefighters from entering, because they were not cloaked or wearing head scarves.
- Female activists at Tahrir Square were detained and forced to endure virginity tests, in which a doctor inserts their finger into women's vaginal opening to search for the their hymen. The doctor was sued but later acquitted.

I don't know if the author's argument is as reductionist as "they simply hate us", but I don't blame her feeling that way.

 

[A'isha]

This line in the article:

ut because the kingdom is unabashed in its worship of a misogynistic God and never suffers any consequences for it, thanks to its double-whammy advantage of having oil and being home to Islam's two holiest places, Mecca and Medina.

This is, I think, why the situation of women in the Muslim world is probably going to get worse before it gets better.

Saudi Arabia is massively wealthy, controls the center of the Muslim religion, and is horrifically (and openly) brutal and repressive towards women. And as long as all those things remain true, its their influence which will predominate.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

An article in response in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/25/arab-men-women-mona-eltahawy?INTCMP=SRCH

 

[marksman]

Wow. That response makes me feel even worse. It boils down to Saudis don't just hate women. They hate everyone in varying degrees (but mostly women).

 

[portlandatheist]

I heard her interviewed on NPR earlier this week. She complained that in the struggle to discuss this we have the far right Islamophobes on one hand and on the other hand people who don't want to criticize this aspect of their culture at all for fear of coming across as Islamophobes and neither group is welcome or helpful. I thought it was a really good interview and with the rapid change in political climate, now is the time to confront this and address women's rights.

 

[truethat]

One of my friends posted this on facebook and I pointed out that it's so vitriolic that it borders on misandry.

I'm also incredibly suspicious about the "female circumcision" claims, because having been married to an Egyptian I never ever met a single woman in family or friends who had this procedure done. I think it's manipulated propaganda that everyone just sucks right up as true without really looking at the statistics or numbers.

 

[Virus]

It's not true because it didn't happen to a handful of people you know. Great logic there from a skeptic.

 

[Puppycow]

One of my friends posted this on facebook and I pointed out that it's so vitriolic that it borders on misandry.

I'm also incredibly suspicious about the "female circumcision" claims, because having been married to an Egyptian I never ever met a single woman in family or friends who had this procedure done. I think it's manipulated propaganda that everyone just sucks right up as true without really looking at the statistics or numbers.

It's real.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

How many Egyptian women have you personally asked about this?
Are these upper-class Egyptian women who emigrated from Egypt?

 

[marksman]

I saw the NPR interview as well. The interviewer said he had to independently verify her claims on genital mutilation and he did so, using the government's own data. I found that particularly shocking.

 

[Cleon]

Interestingly, there have been three main groups of criticism:

1. Some extremely repugnant sexist remarks, mostly from conservative Muslim men
2. Islamophobes using her article to attack Islam
3. Thoughtful criticism from Arab and Muslim feminists.


Mona (correctly) dismisses the first two groups as useless (to say the least), but the fact that Arab and Muslim women activists are responding is leading to some really interesting discussion. I highly recommend following Mona on Twitter.

ETA: Seriously? The fact that FGM is a widespread problem in northeast Africa, including Egypt, isn't really in doubt. WTF.

 

[Quad4_72]

Why do they hate us?:

The article is describes numerous instances where women have been assaulted without consequence:

- Women endure genital mutilation to reduce their sexual desires.
- Its legal for men to beat women so long as they do so with "good intentions".
- A gang-rape survivor was sentence to jail for getting into a car with an unrelated male.
- Another woman was sentenced to 10 lashes for driving.
- 15 girls died in a school fire in Mecca because the "morality police" bared them feeling the building, and firefighters from entering, because they were not cloaked or wearing head scarves.
- Female activists at Tahrir Square were detained and forced to endure virginity tests, in which a doctor inserts their finger into women's vaginal opening to search for the their hymen. The doctor was sued but later acquitted.

I don't know if the author's argument is as reductionist as "they simply hate us", but I don't blame her feeling that way.

It's quite disturbing indeed. When I was in Iraq, I will never forget when I saw a truck driving down the road with a sheep in the cab and a woman in the back in the middle of a rainstorm.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

In Egypt 1997-2010:
91% of 15-49 year old women have been cut/mutilated
24% of 15-49 year old women have at least one mutilated/cut daughter

Source:

http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/egypt_statistics.html

More data here:
http://www.measuredhs.com/pubs/pdf/OD6/03Prevalence.pdf

 

[I Ratant]

It's quite disturbing indeed. When I was in Iraq, I will never forget when I saw a truck driving down the road with a sheep in the cab and a woman in the back in the middle of a rainstorm.

.
The sheep didn't protest at sex.
I've seen disregard for women as people here at the Mall. Daddy opens the door to the store, walks in, the door closes. Junior does the same. Momma has to open the door for herself.
Some of the Muslim women here wear the hijab, mostly the older ones, their daughters sometimes will or won't.
And some will stop wearing it.
Women are just mobile wombs to most of the men, it appears, from the violence they face.

 

[Morrigan]

One of my friends posted this on facebook and I pointed out that it's so vitriolic that it borders on misandry.

It's vitriolic and misandrist to denounce the atrocities committed against women? Wot.

Women in the Middle East are generally treated as chattel, in ways that make European women from the Middle Ages and antiquity seem enlightened in comparison. It's not an unfair generalization, it's how it really is.

I'm also incredibly suspicious about the "female circumcision" claims, because having been married to an Egyptian I never ever met a single woman in family or friends who had this procedure done. I think it's manipulated propaganda that everyone just sucks right up as true without really looking at the statistics or numbers.

Hilarious. The real statistics show that it's very much widespread, in the 90+ percents, yet you use your personal anecdotes as evidence instead.

This is, I think, why the situation of women in the Muslim world is probably going to get worse before it gets better.

Saudi Arabia is massively wealthy, controls the center of the Muslim religion, and is horrifically (and openly) brutal and repressive towards women. And as long as all those things remain true, its their influence which will predominate.

Agreed. I feel for these women, they have a really difficult, uphill battle ahead of them. :|

 

[Virus]

And if their parents say so they have to get married to some old dude.

Their culture sucks.

 

[tyr_13]

And if their parents say so they have to get married to some old dude.

Their culture sucks.

Those aspects of their culture sucks. Many other aspects of their culture sucks as well. But many aspects of our culture sucks as well.

Using an overly broad brush is easy, appealing, but lazy and almost always ends up wrong.

 

[Virus]

Those aspects of their culture sucks. Many other aspects of their culture sucks as well. But many aspects of our culture sucks as well.

Using an overly broad brush is easy, appealing, but lazy and almost always ends up wrong.

I'm sure they have a lot of great achievents in other fields to make up for forced marriages to old men and genital mutilation. Oh wait they don't.

 

[tyr_13]

I'm sure they have a lot of great achievents in other fields to make up for forced marriages to old men and genital mutilation. Oh wait they don't.

I didn't say that they did 'make up' for anything.

 

[BravesFan]

It really is just terrible.

I wonder if an influx of democracy will help to alter this though. If women are able to vote, they would be able to enact legislation that could reverse some of these things.

If ,of course, they are able to vote, and if they are able to hold office.

Here's a question (and I wouldn't even know where to look for this) but does the UN and Intl, Civil Rights groups consider Islamic Honor crimes when they tabulate violations ?

 

[Ziggurat]

Women are just mobile wombs to most of the men, it appears, from the violence they face.

Did you ever read the Dune books? In it, there was a xenophobic, totalitarian religious group called the Tleilaxu whose specialty was biologically engineered products. They would produce these in what were called axlotl tanks. As the series progresses, it's revealed that these "tanks" are in fact Tleilaxu women. The women are used precisely like that: as mere wombs, part of an industrial process. They have no life and no existence outside of that role.

Quite a lot of Dune was inspired by Islam.