Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[LTC8K6]

Thanks. In which case I think conviction likely requisite to demonstrate such a trait. If not, does the screwdriver have an probative value? Is the screwdriver prejudicial?

I actually think a critical item is TM's explanation of the screwdriver and jewelry. What his exact response was when questioned, I mean.

 

[johnny karate]

My "assertion" was the title of the article. Here is the first sentence:

"SANFORD, Fla. -- A Florida police department says women's jewelry found in Trayvon Martin's school backpack last year didn't match any that had been reported stolen."
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_20267401/police-investigated-trayvon-martin-over-jewelry

Yeah, I saw the title. I just didn't see the text in the article that actually corroborated the title. And apparently neither did you. So I guess we're in agreement that it's a bogus title and a false assertion.

I had just posted two links that show what you just said is wrong but still you persist.

No. No you didn't.

I made the following assertions:

1) The school didn't turn the supposedly stolen jewelry over to the police.

2) Martin didn't receive any disciplinary action as a result of having the jewelry.

Please quote the portions of either article that contradict those assertions.

Out of fairness, here's a quote that supports them:

Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...usands-expected-at-trayvon.html#storylink=cpy​

 

[Ferguson]

Yes, it is easy. Very easy. But that doesn't necessarily make them correct assumptions.

For starters, I don't know anyone with a CCP. I'm not even sure if I know anyone who owns a gun. If I do, those people keep it locked away somewhere. The idea of someone arming themselves to make a run to the store is completely foreign to me, and if someone did so in my presence I would be very uncomfortable.

Considering about half of American households own a gun, and the state of Florida has issued over 2 million CCP's, I think that would make you an exception rather than the baseline.

The point is, I understand that for some people in some parts of the country walking around with a gun for no particular reason is just part of everyday life. But it's not like that for everyone, and to pretend it is, and to further pretend that doing so is a perfectly innocuous activity is just a bit disingenuous.

So we should treat it as automatically suspicious, despite no laws broken or demonstrated intent to break any laws, because some people in some parts of the country are "uncomfortable" with guns?

 

[RandFan]

I actually think a critical item is TM's explanation of the screwdriver and jewelry. What his exact response was when questioned, I mean.

{sigh} I'm going to bed.

 

[johnny karate]

GZ did not do that, imo. So to me, that's not part of the story. Not sure where "unauthorized" fits in.

Claiming he "took" his gun is like claiming he "took" his wallet, imo.

Both are normally carried with him. One would not normally remove a concealed weapon in this case, imo.

It sounds uncomfortably like you think GZ did not have his weapon on him, but put it on and then got out of the truck to follow Martin.

Which, for all I know, may be true.

Yeah, we've been on this exact same semantic merry-go-round, and I have no interest in another ride.

Zimmerman had a gun on him when he followed Martin. That is factual and that is all I'm saying. You can perceive that activity to be as innocuous as you like, but I'm not going to parse my language within an inch of its life to appease you or anyone else on this point.

And as far as the use of the term "unauthorized" goes, I was referring to Zimmerman not being a law enforcement officer.

 

[johnny karate]

Of course the police have them! Do you think the school gets to keep the jewelry?

Apparently they think so:

School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.

​

 

[triforcharity]

So, yes, disregard a screen capture that has little context and no claims from anyone who would even know if that is a body.

The police/fire rescue don't typically cover up anything else with yellow plastic bags.

 

[triforcharity]

Perhaps you should look into online shopping?

Ok, now that was funny.

 

[triforcharity]

I've known a super liberal girl from Florida and sweet grandmother from Oaklakoma that both carried guns with them almost everywhere. In California (where I'm from) that is outlandish, it seems like there is a very strong regional aspect to how people view guns.

Very true. My neighbors next door are from S. California, and wonder why we have guns in the house, and cars. They've asked us in the past. My father carries one damn near everywhere, as does my mom, and they're from.....Kentucky and Tennessee.

Maybe it has something to do with "Southern" states?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Yeah, we've been on this exact same semantic merry-go-round, and I have no interest in another ride.

It's not just me
hehehe

 

[johnny karate]

Considering about half of American households own a gun, and the state of Florida has issued over 2 million CCP's, I think that would make you an exception rather than the baseline.

Are you sure about that?

From its beginnings in the 1980s, the “right-to-carry” movement has succeeded in boosting the number of licensed concealed-gun carriers from fewer than 1 million to a record 6 million today, according to estimates from gun-rights groups that are supported by msnbc.com’s research.

That's only about 2% of the population.

So we should treat it as automatically suspicious, despite no laws broken or demonstrated intent to break any laws, because some people in some parts of the country are "uncomfortable" with guns?

Not at all. But what it does mean is that we shouldn't pretend like guns are a normal, everyday part of life for everyone, and that they aren't, in fact, lethal weapons.

Keep in mind, this is all in the context of people assuming that a guy with a gun is automatically innocuous, while the kid with the screwdriver is automatically a felon. My overarching point is about equity, and not the dangers of guns.

 

[triforcharity]

This is kind of stupid and a bit off topic but...
I've notice quite a few Floridians are posting in this thread. I know of at least one other Central Floridian. I live about an hour and a half SE of Sanford so I am not quite at the epicenter. However, I've read multiple blogs and articles, even seen a few news clips making reference to the "constant" chatter in the streets about this case. To be perfectly honest, in my day to day life, since this case went national, I've only had one incident where someone else brought it up to a group of people and it really didn't last that long. Has anyone else seen anything suggesting that the public conversation is/was consumed by this case or is that another hyperbole?

When it was the "hot" news, I noticed a bit in places like Space Coast Stadium, or overheard people talking about it at walmart, but as a whole, since Zimmerman's arrest, I have heard almost nothing.

So, maybe it's just Sanford? Heck, I was at Universal Studios today, and didn't hear a word about it.

So, take it with a grain of salt.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

There was originally one source that the other media outlets then picked up on.
How many incorrect things about George Zimmerman were "either explicitly or implicitly acknowledged by a number of sources"? The issue of his race comes to mind.

His mother or father could certainly repudiated it, and have not. The plea to stop talking about is an implicit acknowledgement of the truth of it. Unless you think the school manufactured the story to make him look bad.

...
And those who want to believe the worst about Martin seem to have no problem accepting this particular piece of ammunition at face value.

That's probably because it's a rather non-remarkable event.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Keep in mind, this is all in the context of people assuming that a guy with a gun is automatically innocuous, while the kid with the screwdriver is automatically a felon.

That's because we have codified into law a process to allow those who chose to carry a gun, and likewise codified into law prohibitions against carrying potential burglary tools with no other apparent purpose.

So, yes. Legally one is innocuous and one is not. I don't understand why you keep arguing otherwise, or show surprise that that is how people accept the situation.

 

[WildCat]

Apparently they think so:
Quote:
School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.

I hilited the part you seem to have missed.

 

[marplots]

It's time to contact Sylvia Browne and get Trayvon's side of the story.

 

[johnny karate]

I hilited the part you seem to have missed.

No, I saw it. I also saw the word that comes before it. If you want argue that the school police are completely unaffiliated with the school, and impounded the jewelry some other place besides the school, I suppose you can.

Otherwise, it seems to me that the school police kept the jewelry at the school as opposed to turning it over to the actual police. You know, the guys who have the authority and resources to investigate the felony Martin supposedly committed.

 

[johnny karate]

His mother or father could certainly repudiated it, and have not. The plea to stop talking about is an implicit acknowledgement of the truth of it.

They actually did repudiate it:

“It’s completely irrelevant to what happened Feb. 26,” said attorney Benjamin Crump. “They never heard this, and don’t believe it’s true. If it were true, why wouldn’t they call the parents? Why wasn’t he arrested?"

Unless you think the school manufactured the story to make him look bad.

It didn't come from the school as an institution, but rather an unnamed school police investigator. And I don't know if the story was manufactured, but I do know it doesn't make sense. I can't speak to this anonymous person's motives other than to point out that they certainly had no qualms about volunteering information that casts Martin in a negative light.

That's because we have codified into law a process to allow those who chose to carry a gun, and likewise codified into law prohibitions against carrying potential burglary tools with no other apparent purpose.

So, yes. Legally one is innocuous and one is not. I don't understand why you keep arguing otherwise, or show surprise that that is how people accept the situation.

There's actually no law against carrying a screwdriver, no matter how much you dress it up in inflammatory language. Proof of that is in the fact that Martin didn't get arrested.

Furthermore, a gun is a lethal weapon that requires legal documentation to purchase and own. A screwdriver is a common household item you can easily purchase almost anywhere.

So yes, the law clearly sets a standard for determining which of those two items is innocuous, and it certainly isn't the gun.

 

[Cylinder]

Furthermore, a gun is a lethal weapon that requires legal documentation to purchase and own.

Just as an aside, Florida does not require handguns to be registered. All that is required is an FFL for dealers, a simple background check and 3-day wait for handguns - which is waived for concealed permit holders. The state is requuired to destroy background checks once they are approved.

 

[This is The End]

It does, and as a prosecutor, that would be my closing argument.

The case lacks a lot of physical evidence and any witnesses at all, so you have to go to motive and history to establish the motive. Every single call he ever made to the police should be heard by the jury, in order.

Psychiatric witnesses can testify about "Batman's Syndrome" and he can be painted as a person with a history of failure to catch anybody who was not going to allow himself to fail again.

And the prosecutors should underscore; Who weighed more. Who was stalking whom. Who was armed.

And they will convict if they do it that way.

Wow. You aren't actually following this thread or the facts in the case, are you ?

Do you disagree that Z did not want this one to get away like the others?