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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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Well, in fairness, I'm not making blanket "conspiracy theory" accusations against anyone who disagrees with me. There are plenty of people in this thread with whom I disagree for which I have the utmost respect. However, the one conspiracy theory charge that I did level was regarding a theory of a conspiracy that involved Martin's parents, their lawyer, at least one witness, and the mayor of Sanford. It also alleged knowing what some of these participants were actually thinking.
That's not an honest summary of what I've said. Below is a background post on the Crump PR effort also with a link showing Johnny Karate's tendency to label those who disagree with him as "conspiracy theorists":
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8225057&postcount=7531
 
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Oh, I didn't know the Supreme court had already ruled on the specifics of this case. If so, then I stand corrected.

Thanks for letting me know.
The 'strictly legal' specifics that you brought up were ruled on a long time ago.
 
I added the bolded parts.

In this version where he approached GZ twice, I don't know.

I can't get past the thought that if TM feared for his safety, almost anything would be a better alternative than approaching the person worrying you.

Again, assuming this version of events has some validity, it means TM did not take advantage of the opportunity to make it home to safety, if he approached the truck. That says to me, he's not fearing for his safety.

The first time Martin approached him it might have just been concern or curiosity. The second time Zimmerman followed him, Martin might then have begun to fear for his safety. I certainly won't disagree that running away seems like the reasonable response, but then again, I wasn't there and I don't know the exact circumstances. It's quite possible that Martin felt somehow cornered.
 
That Brandi Green video (Tracy's fiance - Brandi is a she) was the next morning, after the shooting. Feb 27th.

They had little details at that point, and if you look at the video, you can see she was terribly distraught, and I inferred from the way she said it, he was sitting on the porch earlier. Her sentences all run together.

EDIT: OK, you were referring to that one on the Sharpton show. I imagine he was commenting how earlier, they had bee sitting out on the back ...
That's my impression also.
 
It does, and as a prosecutor, that would be my closing argument.

The case lacks a lot of physical evidence and any witnesses at all, so you have to go to motive and history to establish the motive. Every single call he ever made to the police should be heard by the jury, in order.

Psychiatric witnesses can testify about "Batman's Syndrome" and he can be painted as a person with a history of failure to catch anybody who was not going to allow himself to fail again.

And the prosecutors should underscore; Who weighed more. Who was stalking whom. Who was armed.

And they will convict if they do it that way.
They might if they actually have some evidence, and not just speculation. If it's just the sort of speculation we've seen in this thread Zimmerman will walk. The judge might even end it without even sending it to the jury.
 
I think that's because it's easy to make the assumption that generally speaking, people with CCP carry everywhere, not because they intend to shoot anyone, and generally speaking, highschool kids with screwdrivers and jewelry stole it.

Yes, it is easy. Very easy. But that doesn't necessarily make them correct assumptions.

For starters, I don't know anyone with a CCP. I'm not even sure if I know anyone who owns a gun. If I do, those people keep it locked away somewhere. The idea of someone arming themselves to make a run to the store is completely foreign to me, and if someone did so in my presence I would be very uncomfortable.

The point is, I understand that for some people in some parts of the country walking around with a gun for no particular reason is just part of everyday life. But it's not like that for everyone, and to pretend it is, and to further pretend that doing so is a perfectly innocuous activity is just a bit disingenuous.

Secondly, I acknowledge that a high school kid with a screwdriver and a bunch of jewelry in his backpack looks suspicious. But everyone has seemed to jump to the conclusion that a) this account is actually true and b) Martin is automatically guilty of a crime that there is actually no evidence of ever having occurred.

Occam's Razor was invoked to demonstrate the likelihood of Martin having been involved in the burglary of someone's home. But Occam's Razor seems to go out the window when considering why the person whose home was burglarized didn't report it, or why Martin wasn't turned over to the police with such damning evidence of a felony.

I don't know if that account was incomplete, embellished or fabricated, but I do know it doesn't make a lot of sense. As I said before, all we have is this great story of criminal behavior for anyone who wants to believe the worst about Trayvon Martin that is credible right up to the point of actually being verified by law enforcement.
 
Because people are sometimes unaware that the had something stolen and don't report it to the police. However, in this case, we're alleging that a house was burglarized as well.
:confused:

Why would you necessarily be aware if something was stolen from your home? Maybe you didn't lock the door so the screwdriver wasn't even needed. It's also quite possible entry was achieved without breaking the door or the jamb if the lock/door was poorly installed. Hell a credit card gets you in most doors if the deadbolt isn't locked.
 
:confused:

Why would you necessarily be aware if something was stolen from your home? Maybe you didn't lock the door so the screwdriver wasn't even needed. It's also quite possible entry was achieved without breaking the door or the jamb if the lock/door was poorly installed. Hell a credit card gets you in most doors if the deadbolt isn't locked.

So long Occam's Razor!
 
So long Occam's Razor!
Maybe aliens teleported your jewelry and gave you new memories. Maybe you are struck by a low flying bird on the day of the burglary and you get amnesia. Maybe you paid another burglar to steal from your house on the very same day in an insurance scheme and the burglar who stole your jewelry was struck and killed by a brinks truck and you never found out that he didn't steal all of the jewelry and besides, you didn't want to notify the police as they might figure our your scheme.

Could happen.
 
like the claim that GZ had started following TM at 6:54.
Want to bet that it will come out that the call originated at 6:54, but it wasn't until much later that Martin said he was being followed?
 
Police investigated Trayvon Martin over jewelry:
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_20267401/police-investigated-trayvon-martin-over-jewelry

The police didn't match the jewerely to any that had been stolen but the fact that the school notified the police and the police investigated confirms that the school did think it was evidence of a serious crime and treated it as such.

Original Miami Herald article:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/v-fullstory/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html
 
Yes, it is easy. Very easy. But that doesn't necessarily make them correct assumptions.

For starters, I don't know anyone with a CCP. I'm not even sure if I know anyone who owns a gun. If I do, those people keep it locked away somewhere. The idea of someone arming themselves to make a run to the store is completely foreign to me, and if someone did so in my presence I would be very uncomfortable.

You either live a sheltered life surrounded only by people of similar beliefs and values, or you live in a State where CCP's aren't issued to the masses.
 
The police didn't match the jewerely to any that had been stolen but the fact that the school notified the police and the police investigated confirms that the school did think it was evidence of a serious crime and treated it as such.
But it's not proof that a crime had been committed, right? In fact, given there was no conviction (never mind there was no charge) then as far as this case goes it is not probative, right?
 
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Tommorow Judge Lester will hear the motion from The Miami Herald, et al. to unseal all discovery materials provided to the defendant.

In order for the records to remain sealed, the court must find:

1. Closure is neccessary to prevent a serious and imminent threat to the administration of justice.

2. No alternatives are available, other than a change of venue, which would protect a defendant's right to fair trial; and

3. Closure would be effective in protecting the rights of the accused without being broader than neccessary to acomplish this purpose.
 
Yes, it is easy. Very easy. But that doesn't necessarily make them correct assumptions.
Agreed, not necessarily correct.

The point is, I understand that for some people in some parts of the country walking around with a gun for no particular reason is just part of everyday life. But it's not like that for everyone, and to pretend it is, and to further pretend that doing so is a perfectly innocuous activity is just a bit disingenuous.

We disagree. Especially about those who self select to get a CCP, because they want a gun as part of their everyday life.

Secondly, I acknowledge that a high school kid with a screwdriver and a bunch of jewelry in his backpack looks suspicious. But everyone has seemed to jump to the conclusion that a) this account is actually true
It's been either explicitly or implicitly acknowledged by a number of sources, so I don't think we are jumping to conclusions.
and b) Martin is automatically guilty of a crime that there is actually no evidence of ever having occurred.
I thought the jewelry and the failure to communicate how he got it was good evidence of a crime. It certainly could be he was just holding it for a friend, and didn't steal anything himself, though. I have tried to say he either stole it or was holding stolen stuff.

Occam's Razor was invoked to demonstrate the likelihood of Martin having been involved in the burglary of someone's home. But Occam's Razor seems to go out the window when considering why the person whose home was burglarized didn't report it, or why Martin wasn't turned over to the police with such damning evidence of a felony.

But the police were notified. And if it was a collection of a ring from this locker, a pair of earrings from a backpack, etc .... well... it's not so hard to believe. It's much harder for me to believe they weren't stolen. Sorry if I am not properly skeptical. But - no one saw him steal it, and they couldn't prove it was stolen ... so there you go - that's why he wasn't arrested. Everything works as it should, right ?

I don't know if that account was incomplete, embellished or fabricated, but I do know it doesn't make a lot of sense. As I said before, all we have is this great story of criminal behavior for anyone who wants to believe the worst about Trayvon Martin that is credible right up to the point of actually being verified by law enforcement.

TM seems to have provided some good ammunition himself for those who want to believe the worst about him.
 
O'Mara to disclose over $200,000 in donations to Zimmerman at tommorow's hearing

The lawyer for the neighborhood watch leader who fatally shot unarmed 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Florida, said Thursday that his client has received about $200,000 from supporters.

Orlando lawyer Mark O'Mara told CNN's "AC360" that George Zimmerman told him Wednesday of the donations as they were trying to shut down his Internet presence to avoid concerns about possible impersonators and problems with his Twitter and Facebook accounts.

"He asked me what to do with his PayPal accounts and I asked him what he was talking about," O'Mara told Anderson Cooper. "And he said those were the accounts that had the money from the website he had. And there was about 200, $204,000 that had come in to date."

O'Mara had said earlier this month that he believed Zimmerman had no money. "I think he's indigent for costs," he said, adding that Zimmerman's relatives had few assets.
 
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Evidence he didn't know the street name ? Not like you'll actually respond to me ....

~~~
19:12:57 Zimmerman: When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in…and make a left.
19:13:03 Zimmerman: Actually. You would go past the clubhouse.
19:13:06 Dispatcher: Ah. You say it's on the left hand side from the clubhouse?
19:13:10 Zimmerman: Naaah…you go in straight through the entrance…and then you make a left…uh…yea, you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left-
<snip>
19:14:12 Zimmerman: Um, if they come in through the uh, gate -- tell them to go straight past the club house, [more slapping/flapping noises] and uh, straight past the club house and make a left, and then they go past the mailboxes, they’ll see my truck...[unintelligible]
19:14:31 Dispatcher: Okay. What address are you parked in front of?
19:14:33 Zimmerman: Um. I don’t know, it’s a cut through so I don’t know the address.

or

19:12:57 Zimmerman: Come in through the main entrance on 3 Oregon, cross straight over Retreat View Circle onto Twin Trees Lane, my truck's parked middle of the section after the bend.

All done, see how easy it is.
 

I didn't see in that article where it says the police investigated Trayvon Martin. Please provide a quote to support your assertion.

The police didn't match the jewerely to any that had been stolen but the fact that the school notified the police and the police investigated confirms that the school did think it was evidence of a serious crime and treated it as such.

Yes, they believed it so much that they didn't even bother turning the supposedly stolen jewelry over to the police, nor did Martin receive any disciplinary action as a result. Maybe he was just fortunate enough to attend a school that has a lax policy in dealing with felonies.
 
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