Pink Slime

[Skeptic Ginger]

Incorrect. It's basic anatomy, cows have varying amounts of connective tissue. So does "trim", it's inherent to the process of randomly slicing off bits of fat and tissue from a carcass. It's a scientific fact.

I don't believe this, everyone knows this.

The study looked at ground beef vs LBT. Where's your study showing the variability of insoluble fibrous proteins in ground beef? You are just making up facts that sound logical to you. But the evidence says otherwise.

 

[Furcifer]

Same old tired false assumptions about people, Joey. Anyone who complains about the bad side of the influence of money in government (lobbying to change an FDA definition to deceive the consumer), or the practice of Newspeak marketing (calling waste meat "lean beef trimmings") must be an anti-capitalist commie.

So should we boycott Jimmy Dean until they change the name to "Jimmy Deans Breakfast ground up pig parts and spices crammed in sheep gut"?

Mac Donald's 6 piece "breaded chicken parts paste and soy"?

You don't think "sausage" or "nugget" is deliberately misleading marketing?

The common name of almost every food is misleading. It's like that not only for marketing, but because people don't really want to know what's in their for or how it was made. I do admire your passion, even if it is a little misplaced.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

So should we boycott Jimmy Dean until they change the name to "Jimmy Deans Breakfast ground up pig parts and spices crammed in sheep gut"?

Mac Donald's 6 piece "breaded chicken parts paste and soy"?

You don't think "sausage" or "nugget" is deliberately misleading marketing?

The common name of almost every food is misleading. It's like that not only for marketing, but because people don't really want to know what's in their for or how it was made. I do admire your passion, even if it is a little misplaced.

I have one word for you.

Haggis.

 

[jnelso99]

"Jimmy Deans Breakfast ground up pig parts and spices crammed in sheep gut"?

Mmm - my desire to try haggis has returned...

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Should meat also be labelled according to whether the animals are castrated or not, and what their diet is?

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1042&context=hruskareports

 

[Furcifer]

The study looked at ground beef vs LBT. Where's your study showing the variability of insoluble fibrous proteins in ground beef? You are just making up facts that sound logical to you. But the evidence says otherwise.

What evidence? Your claims? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know ground beef has varying amounts of connective tissue, and that the connective tissue contirbutes to the tenderness. It's also obvious the younger the cow the more tender the connective tissue will be. That can also be easily exprapolated from the veal study cited up thread.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if the fat content is increased the amount of connective tissue decreases.

So what exactly are you looking for? Some ground beef analysis showing the different levels of connective tissue in different samples? Really? You really can't figure this out like everyone else? Or are you just making absurd demands to stifle the discussion? Just asking.

 

[Furcifer]

What if instead of using ammonium we used a nice bottle of Merlot and let the connective tissue stew for 6-8 hours before mixing it back in, we'll call if "purple slime". Would "purple slime" be as bad? Same product, same consistency, just purple.

Of course I'm calling it Tender Merloted Beef Trimmings.

 

[Joey McGee]

Same old tired false assumptions about people, Joey. Anyone who complains about the bad side of the influence of money in government (lobbying to change an FDA definition to deceive the consumer), or the practice of Newspeak marketing (calling waste meat "lean beef trimmings") must be an anti-capitalist commie.

I just wasted your entire argument with my those posts about the taste tests and SHOCKINGLY you chose not to reply to any of it directly. Instead you made a juvenile accusation about my politics. I *********** hate all politics. Then you just repeat your evidence-free canards. This thread is done.

 

[tyr_13]

What straw men? The ones where people mistakenly say I'm arguing about safety?

What on Earth do you think I'm arguing?

Misleading labeling and the fact the stuff ruins hamburger for me. That's it. And the evidence supports my claims.

You guys are the one's off base here.

That's exactly what I said was your claim. You're claim of straw manning your argument to be about safety is itself a straw man.

EDIT: What do you want it labeled?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's exactly what I said was your claim. You're claim of straw manning your argument to be about safety is itself a straw man.

EDIT: What do you want it labeled?

First I need to figure out what your issue is.

OK, so you get it I've not made any claims about safety, in fact, I've said the ammonia fear is foolish, ammonia is a normal chemical in everyone's bodies.

You said:

No, I read it. But as has been pointed out, that report doesn't actually conclude the same thing you claim. ...

I claim the analysis shows the significantly different ratio of fibrous protein to muscle protein in LBT compared to regular hamburger.

The author of the article said people were misrepresenting the analysis re safety. I didn't purposefully make that a straw man to address, it is what the author of the study said.


You claim the study didn't show what I said it did.

So what do you think I said the study shows?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I just wasted your entire argument with my those posts about the taste tests and SHOCKINGLY you chose not to reply to any of it directly. Instead you made a juvenile accusation about my politics. I *********** hate all politics. Then you just repeat your evidence-free canards. This thread is done.

Let's be clear here, the juvenile accusation was:

This is about sticking it to the man. Period. lol

That is the juvenile accusation I replied to when I said

Same old tired false assumptions about people, Joey. Anyone who complains about the bad side of the influence of money in government (lobbying to change an FDA definition to deceive the consumer), or the practice of Newspeak marketing (calling waste meat "lean beef trimmings") must be an anti-capitalist commie.

 

[tyr_13]

First I need to figure out what your issue is.

OK, so you get it I've not made any claims about safety, in fact, I've said the ammonia fear is foolish, ammonia is a normal chemical in everyone's bodies.

You said:I claim the analysis shows the significantly different ratio of fibrous protein to muscle protein in LBT compared to regular hamburger.

The author of the article said people were misrepresenting the analysis re safety. I didn't purposefully make that a straw man to address, it is what the author of the study said.


You claim the study didn't show what I said it did.

So what do you think I said the study shows?

Bloody hell, are you going to address my questions in any meaningful way? None of that does that. I'm not answering your question because it's meaningless. Your claim is that LBT is a nefarious and misleading label. That report doesn't support that either. I never said anything about safety.

You can't just dodge then ask me to make a claim. I'm not going to make a claim for you to attack. Support your claim. What do you want it labeled/called?

 

[Beerina]

What straw men? The ones where people mistakenly say I'm arguing about safety?

What on Earth do you think I'm arguing?

Misleading labeling and the fact the stuff ruins hamburger for me.

You don't know that. It gives you a case of the ickies, but you don't know you could tell the difference -- or like it better than "pure" hamburger.

And even if you liked it less, so what? That's just your preference. People might be very happy to buy lower-cost hamburger with this in it. They happily buy burger with filler that's pre-formed to burgers.

I will grant you that that is labeled. I have less of a problem with the labeling than I do with the "icky" objections of people.

 

[Draca]

You don't know that. It gives you a case of the ickies, but you don't know you could tell the difference -- or like it better than "pure" hamburger.

And even if you liked it less, so what? That's just your preference. People might be very happy to buy lower-cost hamburger with this in it. They happily buy burger with filler that's pre-formed to burgers.

I will grant you that that is labeled. I have less of a problem with the labeling than I do with the "icky" objections of people.

She has explained several times that she could tell the difference. That she noticed the change 10 yrs before she heard of LFTB makes her credible in my opinion.

You have 'less problem' with the labeling? Why would you have ANY problem with it being labeled? Clearly there are many people who are upset that they didn't know this filler was in their ground beef and that they were not given the option, the choice to buy it or not. I don't have a great deal of problem with LFTB's existence. If people want to buy it because it makes their food cheaper let them.

It was NOT labeled though, which I think was a deceptive practice that has come home to roost. It STILL in not being required to be labeled by the USDA. The USDA has allowed it to be labeled if the stores want to, but it is not required. I want to know why this is! Why isn't it required. The Beef advocates have gone on record saying people should have the right to purchase LFTB. What about people's right NOT to buy it? That can only come by labeling it so people know what they are buying. If people don't want to buy it because they think it is 'icky' that should be their right.

It was incredibly deceptive of BPI and the USDA not to label it, to still not label it. They deserve every bit repercussion and more that they have received from the consumer finding out what was snuck into their food supply.

 

[Draca]

Houston School District may sue vender who sent beef with LFTB. Good on them!

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/memo...cle_7c9d54d4-ba70-5bf7-8cfc-049ffde5a4e9.html

After proudly proclaiming last month that an investigation had shown its hamburgers to be pink slime-free, Houston ISD admitted late Friday that it had purchased and served most of 14,080 cases of patties with the substance and may have to sue the vendor for breach of contract.

“LFTB is not an acceptable variety meat, filler, or extender for a product to be served to school children,” HISD’s legal office wrote in a demand letter mailed to Don Lee Farms on April 10. “This constitutes a breach of the agreement and demand is made for immediate pickup of the product and refund of the purchase price.”

So far, HISD says, the company has not responded to its demand, and the district is considering additional legal action.

The USDA has approved LFTB as an additive, and federal regulations do not require that it be listed as an ingredient.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Bloody hell, are you going to address my questions in any meaningful way? None of that does that. I'm not answering your question because it's meaningless. Your claim is that LBT is a nefarious and misleading label. That report doesn't support that either. I never said anything about safety.

You can't just dodge then ask me to make a claim. I'm not going to make a claim for you to attack. Support your claim. What do you want it labeled/called?

Here's the problem, you are distorting what I said when you describe my words as, "LBT is a nefarious and misleading label".

Why is the actual issue I have now repeated multiple times so hard to correctly describe?

Years ago I started getting hamburger which the texture of had changed and for me it was personally awful. When I inquired at the grocer, what had changed? I was told, "nothing". I asked more than once. I threw hamburger I paid for out more than once because I didn't know which hamburger had the bad texture so I had to try it to find out. This happened increasingly often over the years until the only burger I could rely on to taste normal to me was the fresh ground at Whole Foods.

All of that was before I ever heard of LBT.

Now that I have heard of LBT everything about it, timing, which burger it is in and not in, all fits the hypothesis LBT is the thing that was making burger horrible for me.

In addition, it turns out the industry lobbied Congress to change hamburger labeling law in order to include LBT in the definition without having to tell the consumer anything was changed about their hamburger.


I have cited an analysis showing LBT is not the same as ground chuck, regardless of the processing. The part of the animal used is different, not just the process.

Earlier evidence was cited noting the industry had to get the labeling law changed to add LBT to burger WITHOUT TELLING CONSUMERS. They could have added it and told consumers, there was nothing about the changed labeling law that allowed LBT into the human food chain. That was a different regulation.


So what is it about this complaint are you claiming I have not supported?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Houston School District may sue vender who sent beef with LFTB. Good on them!

http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/memo...cle_7c9d54d4-ba70-5bf7-8cfc-049ffde5a4e9.html

And therein lies the problem, the meat processer lying about the products they are selling. All they need to do is tell the truth. But you can't trust them to do that because they have demonstrated they have no qualms about lying even if the consumer asks.

The California vendor is one of three supplying burgers to the district; the other two are in Texas. In March, the district said it had asked all three companies if they used LFTB and was told they did not.
HISD reiterated in a news release Friday that its bid specifications prohibit “variety meats, filler or extenders,” and said LFTB “is a cheaper and inferior grade of beef than the district intended to serve to its children.”
The USDA has approved LFTB as an additive, and federal regulations do not require that it be listed as an ingredient.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'd like to know why the people in this thread who claim to be for individual rights (aka you right wingers) don't think consumers have a right to know what they are buying? We aren't talking welfare here, we are talking about individual rights.

 

[Draca]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20120421/BUSINESS/304210021/0/permgall/?odyssey=nav|head

U.S. Rep. Bruce Braley, D-Ia
“Our constituents deserve accurate information about the products they consume, and BPI’s workers deserve an opportunity to answer their critics,” Braley said.


The hypocrisy, oh the hypocrisy!

The constituents deserve accurate information about the products they consume! Oh, but that obviously doesn't include knowing that 15% LFTB was being added to their ground beef for a decade or more.

This protection of the beef industry over the consumer is VERY disappointing.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You don't know that. It gives you a case of the ickies, but you don't know you could tell the difference -- or like it better than "pure" hamburger.

And even if you liked it less, so what? That's just your preference. People might be very happy to buy lower-cost hamburger with this in it. They happily buy burger with filler that's pre-formed to burgers.

I will grant you that that is labeled. I have less of a problem with the labeling than I do with the "icky" objections of people.

It doesn't give me the "ickies". I'm not afraid of it. I became upset about the change in my hamburger years before I ever heard of this stuff.

The blinded test is in the works. Our skeptic's group leader thinks it'll be a good test to do. We are working out the methodology.