Pink Slime

[Skeptic Ginger]

No, I read it. But as has been pointed out, that report doesn't actually conclude the same thing you claim. ...

The author of the study disavowed the use of the article to say LBT is unhealthy. That is not what the analysis showed nor is it what I've said the analysis shows.

The analysis did show very clearly there is a significant amount of fibrous protein, IE connective tissue, in LBT compared to the rest of the ground beef.

The previously cited scientific analysis: Finely Textured Lean Beef as an Ingredient for Processed Meats

the LFTB contains more serum and connective tissue proteins and less myofibrillar proteins than muscle meat ...

Table 2 in the analysis shows just how much the difference is and it is not insignificant.

From the link cited in post #55 describing an industry insider's email that was not intended for the public to see:

he coined the term "Pink Slime" to describe the unlabeled and unappetizing bits of cartilage and other chemically-treated scrap meat going into U.S. ground beef ... Descriptions of a mix of fatty beef by-products and connective tissue, ground up and treated with ammonium hydroxide, then blended with ground beef

Skeptics in this thread insisting only the process differs or the amount of connective tissue vs muscle meat in LBT isn't significant cannot support that position.

 

[Furcifer]

Skeptics in this thread insisting only the process differs or the amount of connective tissue vs muscle meat in LBT isn't significant cannot support that position.

It's treated with ammonium hydroxide, that's easily supported.

The amount of connective tissue vs. muscle in LBT should be high, if it wasn't some butcher somewhere isn't doing his job properly. I don't think anyone has said otherwise.

Sorry but you've either created a giant strawman or you're not reading things correctly.

 

[tyr_13]

The author of the study disavowed the use of the article to say LBT is unhealthy. That is not what the analysis showed nor is it what I've said the analysis shows.

The analysis did show very clearly there is a significant amount of fibrous protein, IE connective tissue, in LBT compared to the rest of the ground beef.

The previously cited scientific analysis: Finely Textured Lean Beef as an Ingredient for Processed MeatsTable 2 in the analysis shows just how much the difference is and it is not insignificant.

From the link cited in post #55 describing an industry insider's email that was not intended for the public to see:


Skeptics in this thread insisting only the process differs or the amount of connective tissue vs muscle meat in LBT isn't significant cannot support that position.

The amount of addressing actual arguments vs attacking straw men in your post is troubling. In the future, please label such posts so I can avoid them.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What straw men? The ones where people mistakenly say I'm arguing about safety?

What on Earth do you think I'm arguing?

Misleading labeling and the fact the stuff ruins hamburger for me. That's it. And the evidence supports my claims.

You guys are the one's off base here.

 

[Draca]

Yumo. Sounds delicious.


Material Safety Data Sheet
Ammonium hydroxide MSDS

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...xlxcc5&sig=AHIEtbSm2K76AW8vVDGFgxHN1x7K_jmjHg

 

[Dipayan]

The analysis did show very clearly there is a significant amount of fibrous protein, IE connective tissue, in LBT compared to the rest of the ground beef.

For the fourth time I will link this study - Collagen and Elastin in Different Cuts of Veal and Beef

Veal has a higher percentage of connective tissues than beef. Using your logic, this would mean that veal is a sub-standard meat when compared to beef. Does reality support this?

Edit: Just to make it clearer - what is most important is quality of connective tissue, not quantity.

 

[Joey McGee]

In a USA Today Op-Ed, former USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service administrator Dr. H. Russel Cross declared that "There is no need for labeling LFTB -- because nothing is being added that is not beef."

For every person that went on ABC and said it's not ground beef, I can produce another more credicle USDA employee that will say the opposite. So repeating what they said in an interview isn't gonna help your case.

 

[Joey McGee]

Misleading labeling and the fact the stuff ruins hamburger for me. That's it. And the evidence supports my claims.

Have you seen this?

Taste Panel Studies

Multiple independent studies have been completed and demonstrate that survey respondents felt that the taste, texture, juiciness and overall appeal of ground beef was actually improved in samples blended with lean finely textured beef (LFTB) compared to samples that were not blended with LFTB. While, samples blended with 10% LFTB and 15% LFTB outperformed ground beef samples with 0% LFTB, samples with 20% LFTB performed consistently and significantly better than any other ground beef samples across the majority of attributes measured.

Taste Test Panel Studies


http://beefisbeef.com/2012/04/03/taste-panel-studies/

Hmmm who should we be listening to here? SG you need to check the details of all of these references here... so you can find who paid for these fraudulent taste tests

 

[Joey McGee]

Yumo. Sounds delicious.


Material Safety Data Sheet
Ammonium hydroxide MSDS

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...xlxcc5&sig=AHIEtbSm2K76AW8vVDGFgxHN1x7K_jmjHg

WOW

http://beefisbeef.com/2012/03/28/get-the-facts/

There is twice as much ammonia in a hamburger bun, four times as much in the cheese. fail fail fail.

It's also naturally made in your body all the time.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

For the fourth time I will link this study - Collagen and Elastin in Different Cuts of Veal and Beef

Veal has a higher percentage of connective tissues than beef. Using your logic, this would mean that veal is a sub-standard meat when compared to beef. Does reality support this?

Edit: Just to make it clearer - what is most important is quality of connective tissue, not quantity.

You are comparing apples to oranges. All collagen and connective tissues are not the same just as heart muscle and skeletal muscle are not the same.

All the fibrous protein in LBT is not "soluble". From your link:

The amount of collagen solubilized by heating in one-fourth strength Ringer's solution was twice as high for veal as for beef.

From table 2 in the university analysis:

Ground Chuck:

soluble proteins: 69%, insoluble 31%​

LBT:

soluble proteins: 23%, insoluble 77%​

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Joey, those links have been cited and discussed including the one reliable study which used a measure of "tenderness" that was the pressure to cut the stuff with a knife, not how the texture tasted in your mouth. As for citing the manufacturer's own web page, that is hardly a reliable source. That some people prefer the texture, great, label it and all will be well in Whoville once again.

I've not claimed there was any danger from the ammonia so that's between you and Draca. I said there is ammonia in every cell in your body as a byproduct of metabolism and the body is well equipped to handle it unless a person is in liver failure.

 

[Furcifer]

That some people prefer the texture, great, label it and all will be well in Whoville once again.

Please tell me you understand the problem with this.

For anyone not sure I'll explain it again to them. If you're at the grocery store and you have a pack of "regular ground beef" and a pack of "15% LBT regular ground" there's absolutely no gaurantee the one with 15% contains more connective tissue, in fact because it's not been processed the connective tissue in the "regular ground beef" may be more fibrous and chewy than the one with LBT.
The label would be useless. Even if the FDA went so far as to require producers not using LBT to label the percentage of connetive tissue in their product (which would require constant analysis because of the variability) there's no way of knowing if the connetive tissue in one is more tender or less fiborous than the other. At best it might show it's slightly less nutritious, but that's essentially reflected in the cost.

 

[Joey McGee]

Joey, those links have been cited and discussed including the one reliable study

bahaha. There are five links and you haven't even tried to debunk one of them with a link or arguement, some of them included flavor and texture... so... I can ignore your opinion.

which used a measure of "tenderness" that was the pressure to cut the stuff with a knife, not how the texture tasted in your mouth.

This is you repeating a misunderstanding of an earlier study, not looking at new evidence or trying to debunk what I just posted. Surpirsed

As for citing the manufacturer's own web page, that is hardly a reliable source.

Oh I'm so parenthetic and evil for linking to the irrefutable science that the groups posts because you happen to disagreee, oh keep on it.

That some people prefer the texture, great, label it and all will be well in Whoville once again.

SO you accept that you're in the minority finally?

 

[Joey McGee]

Corporations are evil. All evidence that supports the operations of corporations is wrong. Please, is this Ren and Stimpy?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Please tell me you understand the problem with this.

For anyone not sure I'll explain it again to them. If you're at the grocery store and you have a pack of "regular ground beef" and a pack of "15% LBT regular ground" there's absolutely no gaurantee the one with 15% contains more connective tissue, ....

I understand the problem, you have no evidence of this. It's not based on any analysis of ground beef, it's based on your unsupported beliefs.

 

[Joey McGee]

double post again, my internet is possessed by lftb

 

[Joey McGee]

not how the texture tasted in your mouth.

Read the links and explanations first before you comment.

 

[Joey McGee]

Dude, shut your mouth, stop asking stupid questions. This is about sticking it to the man. Period. lol

 

[Furcifer]

I understand the problem, you have no evidence of this. It's not based on any analysis of ground beef, it's based on your unsupported beliefs.

Incorrect. It's basic anatomy, cows have varying amounts of connective tissue. So does "trim", it's inherent to the process of randomly slicing off bits of fat and tissue from a carcass. It's a scientific fact.

I don't believe this, everyone knows this.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Dude, shut your mouth, stop asking stupid questions. This is about sticking it to the man. Period. lol

Same old tired false assumptions about people, Joey. Anyone who complains about the bad side of the influence of money in government (lobbying to change an FDA definition to deceive the consumer), or the practice of Newspeak marketing (calling waste meat "lean beef trimmings") must be an anti-capitalist commie.