Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Dan O.]

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/politicsnation/46828740#46828740

Tracy martin on politics nation walking through the crime scene.

At about 1:30 he says "his feet were [like] on the sidewalk"

So much for that theory...

Do you accept the location that Tracy indicated as the actual location of the altercation?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Do you accept the location that Tracy indicated as the actual location of the altercation?

Not necessarily.

I assume he was shown a photo of the body, so he has a clear picture where the body was in relation to the sidewalk.

If there was not an obvious landmark, he may not have as clear an idea where specifically it was along the length of the sidewalk. He may know the exact location, and I agree he was likely within 10 feet (?) of the correct area.

 

[Ziggurat]

I do not think the pictures/video we've seen demonstrates injuries consistent with reasonable fear for one's life. If medical professionals are willing to release him at the scene, I would think they didn't see evidence of serious injury. Until medical reports are produced indicating GZ had serious injuries, I don't believe he had reasonable fear. JMO

I appreciate that you've shared what are probably painful personal memories with us, but I don't think your story supports this conclusion. The thing is, your life was in jeopardy the moment your boyfriend attacked you. It didn't suddenly become threatened when you passed out. Had you been able to (and I'm sorry that you weren't), you would have been justified in using deadly force before your face even hit the wall. So you really can't use the injuries you sustained from an assault you were not able to halt as a yardstick to compare against the injuries sustained during an assault that the victim is able to halt. If your life is in jeopardy, then the logical course of action is to halt the assault as soon as possible, if you are able to. So far more minor wounds than yours are still completely consistent with a reasonable fear of serious injury or death. One need not wait until such injuries are actually inflicted.

 

[crimresearch]

That isn't even technically wrong. Omitting the word "magistrate" would make a substantive difference. But omitting the word "judge" does not change the meaning at all. "Magistrate Judge" is the same thing as "Magistrate." Both are correct. I'm not sure how it works in state courts, but in the federal system the difference is that "Judge" indicates an Article III Judge (i.e., part of the Judiciary branch), while a Magistrate Judge is an Article I Judge (i.e., part of the Executive branch). Article I Judges in the federal system preside over Administrative hearings, and their decisions can always be appealed to an Article III court.

(Article I and Article III refer to the respective Articles of the U.S. Constitution granting them authority.

There is a huge difference. In the federal system a magistrate *is* a judge... they try cases and sentence people to varous punishments, as a significant part of their duties.

In the Virginia system, a magistrate cannot do anything like that, much less sit on the Supreme Court bench. They fall under the auspices of the Executive Secretary, which does not make them members of the Supreme Court in any way shape or form.


They are no more judges than an EMT is an 'Emergency Medical Doctor'.

ETA: And again, I'm just tossing an idea out there... as Freddy has pointed out, the prosecution's hand seems a little light on trump cards, so I'm wondering what else they will bring up to weaken the defense's central claim.

 

[Rare Truth]

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/politicsnation/46828740#46828740

Tracy martin on politics nation walking through the crime scene.

At about 1:30 he says "his feet were [like] on the sidewalk"

So much for that theory...

ETA: Odd. Like Brandi Green said on a different video ... about 1:50 he says "we was sitting out on the the back" . This was weeks later ... why would he say that ?

That Brandi Green video (Tracy's fiance - Brandi is a she) was the next morning, after the shooting. Feb 27th.

They had little details at that point, and if you look at the video, you can see she was terribly distraught, and I inferred from the way she said it, he was sitting on the porch earlier. Her sentences all run together.

EDIT: OK, you were referring to that one on the Sharpton show. I imagine he was commenting how earlier, they had bee sitting out on the back ...

 

[Dan O.]

Not necessarily.

I assume he was shown a photo of the body, so he has a clear picture where the body was in relation to the sidewalk.

If there was not an obvious landmark, he may not have as clear an idea where specifically it was along the length of the sidewalk. He may know the exact location, and I agree he was likely within 10 feet (?) of the correct area.

You're making assumptions that support your desired conclusion but otherwise keeping those goal posts flexible.

What Tracy says at the begining of the segment: "the police never actually walked me through the crime scene, all they just pointed out basically is where he was, where he ended up being at". No mention of any photo there.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That Brandi Green video (Tracy's fiance - Brandi is a she) was the next morning, after the shooting. Feb 27th.

They had little details at that point, and if you look at the video, you can see she was terribly distraught, and I inferred from the way she said it, he was sitting on the porch earlier. Her sentences all run together.

EDIT: OK, you were referring to that one on the Sharpton show. I imagine he was commenting how earlier, they had bee sitting out on the back ...

Yes, I had made the same observation earlier about Ms. Green, especially considering the timing of the interview. I just found it odd the Mr. Martin said the same type of thing. Could be as simple as the all sat on the back porch a lot and had fond memories.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

You're making assumptions that support your desired conclusion but otherwise keeping those goal posts flexible.

What Tracy says at the begining of the segment: "the police never actually walked me through the crime scene, all they just pointed out basically is where he was, where he ended up being at". No mention of any photo there.

Why would the father know exactly where this took place, isn't it likely he could be off by a few feet? Other than being an extremely sad video, why is this video relevant?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

You're making assumptions that support your desired conclusion but otherwise keeping those goal posts flexible.

What Tracy says at the begining of the segment: "the police never actually walked me through the crime scene, all they just pointed out basically is where he was, where he ended up being at". No mention of any photo there.

Fine, the police never showed him a picture (although they did ... i have to track down the link to the longer interview from a different show with no transcript).

Then it seems according to Mr. Martin, the police pointed out where Trayvon was, with his feet at the end of the sidewalk.

It seems, either way, to debunk a screenshot showing something that is claimed to be TM body at an angle that makes it impossible to tell exactly where he is, with no context as to what has already happened to the body.

If you disagree, I would be interested in your explanation.

 

[Dan O.]

Fine, the police never showed him a picture (although they did ... i have to track down the link to the longer interview from a different show with no transcript).

There was a transcript

Then it seems according to Mr. Martin, the police pointed out where Trayvon was, with his feet at the end of the sidewalk.

He did say "like".

It seems, either way, to debunk a screenshot showing something that is claimed to be TM body at an angle that makes it impossible to tell exactly where he is, with no context as to what has already happened to the body.

I'm not wedded to that claim. In fact, Tracy's location is pretty close to where a reporter that interviewed the witness from that apartment placed the body.

If you disagree, I would be interested in your explanation.

I have no reason to disagree. This is consistent with the story George has told.

 

[Unabogie]

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/politicsnation/46828740#46828740

Tracy martin on politics nation walking through the crime scene.

At about 1:30 he says "his feet were [like] on the sidewalk"

So much for that theory...

ETA: Odd. Like Brandi Green said on a different video ... about 1:50 he says "we was sitting out on the the back" . This was weeks later ... why would he say that ?

I thought it was well established that Tracy Martin found out the next day and never saw the crime scene himself? How would he know the exact location of the body? So disregard that photo and rely on people who weren't there?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Fine, the police never showed him a picture (although they did ... i have to track down the link to the longer interview from a different show with no transcript).

There was a transcript .

You know that there is a transcript for a different interview that I referenced but did not specify ? What's the link, then ?

He did say "like".

Yes, but I believe it's a .... colloquialism ? Do you think he meant it was LIKE the feet were at the sidewalk, but they weren't really ? What would that even mean ? Please explain.

I'm not wedded to that claim. In fact, Tracy's location is pretty close to where a reporter that interviewed the witness from that apartment placed the body.

I agree.

I have no reason to disagree. This is consistent with the story George has told.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Why would the father know exactly where this took place, isn't it likely he could be off by a few feet? Other than being an extremely sad video, why is this video relevant?

As I said in my post, to debunk any claims that everything happened 10 feet away from the sidewalk or something along those lines.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I thought it was well established that Tracy Martin found out the next day and never saw the crime scene himself?

That is the claim, yes.

How would he know the exact location of the body? So disregard that photo and rely on people who weren't there?

Because the police told him ? And showed him pictures ? How would he describe where the body was, and where it was in relation to the sidewalk if he didn't have that information ? You think he just pulled it out of his ass ?

So, yes, disregard a screen capture that has little context and no claims from anyone who would even know if that is a body.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

As I said in my post, to debunk any claims that everything happened 10 feet away from the sidewalk or something along those lines.

Ah, well I don't know why we would rely on him. As for the screenshot I think I saw it earlier and couldn't make much out from it, so I don't know why we'd rely on that either. Seems like this should come out at trial with police pictures, at least I would sure hope so.

 

[Unabogie]

That is the claim, yes.



Because the police told him ? And showed him pictures ? How would he describe where the body was, and where it was in relation to the sidewalk if he didn't have that information ? You think he just pulled it out of his ass ?

So, yes, disregard a screen capture that has little context and no claims from anyone who would even know if that is a body.

Why disregard it? I never claimed to know for sure, but that location matches what the detective said at the bond hearing. That the location off the body didn't match Zimmerman's story.

Ironically, Tracy Martin also described Zimmerman's version of events and people have taken great pains to say that only Zimmerman's direct testimony should be accepted as truth, not some game of "telephone". Yet in this case, we MUST accept Tracy Martin's elephant-like powers of memory.

So don't rely on this screen cap, but the fact remains that it exists and appears to contradict Zimmerman. At some point we'll know for sure, hopefully soon.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Because the police told him ? And showed him pictures ? How would he describe where the body was, and where it was in relation to the sidewalk if he didn't have that information ? You think he just pulled it out of his ass ?

So, yes, disregard a screen capture that has little context and no claims from anyone who would even know if that is a body.

You forgot to answer my hilited question.

Why disregard it? I never claimed to know for sure, but that location matches what the detective said at the bond hearing.

GILBREATH: Managed to scoot away from the concrete sidewalk and that is at that point is when the shooting subsequently followed. That is not consistent with the evidence we found.

Is your contention that statement cannot mean next to the sidewalk ? Yes or no?
Or is there another place gilbreath mentioned location ?

That the location off the body didn't match Zimmerman's story.

How so ? For Zimmermans story to be true, how close must the body be to the sidewalk, and how do you arrive at that conclusion ?

How far away is the 'body' in the screen cap ?

Please, unless you are just JAQing off, provide some specifics.

Ironically, Tracy Martin also described Zimmerman's version of events and people have taken great pains to say that only Zimmerman's direct testimony should be accepted as truth, not some game of "telephone". Yet in this case, we MUST accept Tracy Martin's elephant-like powers of memory.

elephant-like ? really ? You think it takes some sort of super memory to recall what the police told you about the death of your son ?

So don't rely on this screen cap, but the fact remains that it exists

Find someone who was at the crime scene who will corroborate the yellow lump is a body. Or any way for me to know that is a body. And that it has not been moved.

and appears to contradict Zimmerman. At some point we'll know for sure, hopefully soon.

 

[triforcharity]

And I can't think of any particular reason why someone would arm himself to take a drive to the store.

I do. As does my wife. Every time we leave the house. Well, most of the time.

 

[Giz]

I do. As does my wife. Every time we leave the house. Well, most of the time.

Perhaps you should look into online shopping?

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Perhaps you should look into online shopping?