Anti-depressants doing more harm than good, killing the elderly

[calebprime]

I didn't get that, either. Or what it had to do with antidepressants.

 

[Dancing David]

Joey McGee, I was somewhat , or way over the top this morning. I will try to not call the author stupid, nor did I mean to imply you were stupid.

Written before reading any posts, since this morning.

 

[Joey McGee]

? Why in the world would I care about the family involved in the creation of the product?

Or, are we using "family" to mean different things here?

I didn't get that, either. Or what it had to do with antidepressants.

Ok guys, do some honest research into the creation of truehope and get back to me.

 

[Joey McGee]

Joey McGee, I was soemwaht , or way over the top this morning. I will try to not call the author stupid, nor did I mean to imply you were stupid.

Written before reading any posts, since this morning.

David, I appreciate the spirit of your clarification. However, I couldn't give a flying **** less if you thought I was stupid, or if you thought these scientists at mcmaster are stupid. I care about how you called them liars.

 

[Dancing David]

How the hell is 11% not widespread?
No one is suggesting they are doing "well" what are you on aboot?I agree. The idea is here is that depression is not dysfunction.

Depression by its definition is dysfunctional.

I can write ditto each time that this statements is made.
The traits of depression only become depression when they impair the functioning of the individual to a significant degree, so someone is redefining the term.

Which is wrong, mild obsession is not likely to be dysfunctional, nor is mild arousal to inappropriate stimuli.

Neither of those mild situations would be part of depression.

The depression trait can become dysfunctional.

Ditto, it is not depression then.

Endless rumination isn't good, but sustained rumination can be for example .No one is saying anything like that here on in that study. To be clear, you can benefit from depression,

Ditto, it is not depression then.
Aspects of the symptoms of depression are not depression.

and sometimes you clearly are not and it's time to do something. The central theory though is that at it's core depression is not dysfunction.

ditto

What I meant was that you appear to think that depression cannot be functional and adaptive and work for people based on your reading of this study. You have just made a broad statement without qualifying it. They did go into it, they referenced this study. http://www.frontiersin.org/Evolutionary_Psychology/10.3389/fpsyg.2011.00159/abstractBaloney.

ditto

They don't get to redefine a term to suit your purposes, depression must be dysfunctional by definition, mild depression will have mild impairment and is rarely if ever treated..

You're the one calling them liars. My interpretation is infinitely more correct than yours.

Nope, they are not, they just get to redefine depression because it suits an agenda.

Depression is defined as being dysfunctional.

You're basically telling me that these people are liars and that "may be" isn't part of standard scientese. OK dude.

Excuse me, but you are wrong, may be does not equal associated.

Show me where that is standard usage in research literature?

Hiding behind evolutionary concepts? What the hell are you talking about?

Depression is not adaptive, so it would in no way benefit reproductive success, if they meant to say mild versions of traits sometimes associated with depression could have some potential benefit to reproduction, that would be accurate.

depression is dysfunctional by definition.

Why are you under the impression I would disagree with this?

I have no idea what moralizing about the origin of depression even means in this situation.

I'll look into this and the math and studies closer when I have more time.

 

[Joey McGee]

I used to the be the king of of anti-med woo. I used to convince people woo was real as my *********** job, get it? Evolutionary psychiatry ruins most people's philosophies about healing and it's a huge *********** ego buster. Can we move on or will this fact poision everyone's mind from here on out?

 

[Dancing David]

David, I appreciate the spirit of your clarification. However, I couldn't give a flying **** less if you thought I was stupid, or if you thought these scientists at mcmaster are stupid. I care about how you called them liars.

If they say things that are not true then they are liars, if they over state , exagerate and mis-represent then they are close to liars.

They can not redefine depression nor make up a bunch of crap.

Aspects of the traits of depression are not depression itself.

So if they want to use teh technical language of mental health they should use it well.

 

[Joey McGee]

Depression by its definition is dysfunctional.

No. See, I anticipated this in my first post. No.

I can write ditto each time that this statements is made.
The traits of depression only become depression when they impair the functioning of the individual to a significant degree, so someone is redefining the term.

No, depression is a biological phenomenon that happens because of evolution. YOU are the one attributing political and social norms to the phenomenon and baselessly claiming normalcy by yourself.

Ditto, it is not depression then.

You can't change the definition of depression.. to fit your political leanings, that's literally the oldest carard.

Nope, they are not they just don't get to redefine depression because it suits an agenda.

Depression is defined as being dysfunctional.

Uh, still I don't think you're familiar with the literature on evolutionary biology/skepticism.

Excuse me, but you are wrong, may be does not equal associated.

You're splitting hairs over concepts connected to evidence and calling the authors LIARS. It's YOU that has exaplaining to do.

 

[Dancing David]

I used to the be the king of of anti-med woo. I used to convince people woo was real as my *********** job, get it? Evolutionary psychiatry ruins most people's philosophies about healing and it's a huge *********** ego buster. Can we move on or will this fact poision everyone's mind from here on out?

I don't think I quite understand what you are saying, aspects of the symptoms of depression are not depression. Not all use of psychiatric medications is well done as well, however the treatment of depression is not against evolutionary traits. It is treating a dysfunction that imapirs someone's life.

I have a networking test,, so I shan't read this until later or tomorrow.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

From DSM IV - Major Depressive Episode:

A. Five (or more) of the following symptoms have been present during the same 2-week period and represent a change from previous functioning; at least one of the symptoms is either (1) depressed mood or (2) loss of interest or pleasure.

Note: Do note include symptoms that are clearly due to a general medical condition, or mood-incongruent delusions or hallucinations.

(1) depressed mood most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report (e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful). Note: In children and adolescents, can be irritable mood.

(2) markedly diminished interest or pleasure in all, or almost all, activities most of the day, nearly every day (as indicated by either subjective account or observation made by others)

(3) significant weight loss when not dieting or weight gain (e.g., a change of more than 5% of body weight in a month), or decrease or increase in appetite nearly every day. Note: In children, consider failure to make expected weight gains.

(4) insomnia or hypersomnia nearly every day

(5) psychomotor agitation or retardation nearly every day (observable by others, not merely subjective feelings of restlessness or being slowed down)

(6) fatigue or loss of energy nearly every day

(7) feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt (which may be delusional) nearly every day (not merely self-reproach or guilt about being sick)

(8) diminished ability to think or concentrate, or indecisiveness, nearly every day (either by subjective account or as observed by others)

(9) recurrent thoughts of death (not just fear of dying), recurrent suicidal ideation without a specific plan, or a suicide attempt or a specific plan for committing suicide

B. The symptoms do not meet criteria for a Mixed Episode.

C. The symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism).

E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by Bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation, psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation

 

[Joey McGee]

No. See, I anticipated this in my first post. No.

No, depression is a biological phenomenon that happens because of evolution. YOU are the one attributing political and social norms to the phenomenon and baselessly claiming normalcy by yourself. You can't change the definition of depression.. to fit your political leanings, that's literally the oldest carard.

Show me where that is standard usage in research literature?

you don't understand that scientists use certain qualifications to avoid sounding like pseudoscientists, I can't help that, and it'a not an argument.

Depression is not adaptive,

Says you... You've played all your cards now.

so it would in no way benefit reproductive success

says you based on... nothing.

if they meant to say mild versions of traits sometimes associated with depression could have some potential benefit to reproduction, that would be accurate.

says you based on... nothing.

depression is dysfunctional by definition.

I opened my posts predicting posters like you

 

[mijopaalmc]

And sometimes you can get generics at Walmart for $12 for three months.

Bupropion is ~$1.00 a pill where I live, and sertraline is about the same, both for the highest doses. While it's not stunningly inexpensive, it is certainly less expensive than vilazodone, the newest SSRI, which is ~$4.00 a pill for the highest dose.

 

[Joey McGee]

If they say things that are not true then they are liars, if they over state , exagerate and mis-represent then they are close to liars.

Why are you anti-dictionary? If you're not conscious of misleading people, you're not lying. If you continue you insist the opposite, I can psychically predict your skeptical destination.

They can not redefine depression nor make up a bunch of crap.

You haven't even come close to showing this.

Aspects of the traits of depression are not depression itself.

That makes no sense.

Look how flawlessly my opening posts predicted the flow of this conversation, it's utterly shocking.

 

[mijopaalmc]

Aren't you doing the same thing that you accuse AA doing, Joey?

 

[Joey McGee]

Just a bunch of rubes claiming that the radical new theories unveiled by evolutionary science are "just so stories" nothing new in the field in decades.

 

[Joey McGee]

Aren't you doing the same thing that you accuse AA doing, Joey?

As Winnie would say, "Oh, bother." Give an example or explain yourself. Boooooorriiiinnnggg

The AA thread is moderated for a reason. Go challenge me there on that topic. It's been a little bit of wear and tear to get to this point.

 

[mijopaalmc]

Just a bunch of rubes claiming that the radical new theories unveiled by evolutionary science are "just so stories" nothing new in the field in decades.

My thoughts exactly.

Why are you promoting junk science?

 

[Joey McGee]

I opened this thread predicting that people would make baseless accusations against evolutionary theory and there you have it folks. I mean would you go into a forum and claim something is junk science without offering qualifications as to why?

 

[Joey McGee]

So when people try and tell you that evolutionary science is just a bunch of atheists trying to make themselves feel better, you'll remember this thread.

 

[mijopaalmc]

As Winnie would say, "Oh, bother." Give an example or explain yourself. Boooooorriiiinnnggg

The AA thread is moderated for a reason. Go challenge me there on that topic. It's been a little bit of wear and tear to get to this point.

You're promoting "novel science" over well-established science, because it takes a radically different approach to old questions.

You're essentially promulgating pseudoscience becuase it's "shiny". While I'm not found of some of the anti-science and anti-intellectualism of the various 12-step programs, I would have thought that someone who is so insistent that addictiom recovery and addiction medicine be "science-based" would be more circumspect about the science they themsleves try to promote.