Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[johnny karate]

I think johnny karate believes it is Trayvon (correct me if I'm wrong) but hand waves the bus driver comment. You just don't believe it, because you don't want to. I think I know why: conflicts with your preconceived notions.

I allow the possibility that it's authentic for the sake of argument, because even if it is, it doesn't amount to much. That we're holding twitter feeds up as documents of fact is a sad day for rational discourse.

 

[Freddy]

I've said this before so forgive me for repeating it. During the Duke Lacross fiasco many reporters kept saying things like, "the prosecution must have evidence we don't know about.". No, the prosecution didn't. That kind of of inductive reasoning is just inviting madness.

My prediction: Other than the voice analysis, which is looking shaky, we know most if not all of the significant evidence about this case. Everything here after is going to be anti-climatic to say the least. If what we got isn't enough then I'm sorry, the case isn't there, my 2 cents.

I agree. My comment wondering why they wouldn't produce stronger evidence if they had it was really a roundabout way of saying I don't think they have other evidence. Because if they had it they would have to be complete idiots not to tell the judge about it at the bond hearing. Even bigger idiots than they already are for charging second degree murder on the evidence available. I think the prosecution is about to be embarrassed in a big way. It will be ugly. O'Mara is going to eat their lunch. And the reaction to the verdict (or dismissal, which is still possible, and perhaps even likely) will be even uglier.

 

[boooeee]

https://twitter.com/#!/Markomaralaw

[qimg]http://i45.tinypic.com/15875g9.jpg[/qimg]

Interesting. therealgeorgezimmerman.com is now down.

1. Was the website never legit in the first place?
2. Or did his lawyer (wisely) tell him to shut it down?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Grand larceny is anything above the value of $400.

In FL it appears to only be $300. I am just correcting you because you are wrong. The point is, not reported stolen, value is irrelevant.

Great. And we'll see just how important it is that Martin once had a screwdriver or a baggie with marijuana residue or was in the vicinity of a fight. I'm guessing in a court of law, not very.

Again, I agree that it's not very relevant.

But in this thread, these particular topics seem to be very important, while the discussion of Zimmerman's history of violence, not so much.

Again, the judge has already given us insight into the 'history of violence.'

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That people posing as someone else used a bunch of racially charged language, and that stupid people bought into it because it confirms their prejudices?

Are you incapable of looking at the evidence objectively in this case ?

Obviously people can and do disagree about some issues ... and I don't claim it's necessarily relevant to the case, either ... but that @no_limit_****** was his twitter account is really not in doubt.

 

[eeyore1954]

I don't see where it means a lot but why does a teenage boy have a screwdriver at school other than nefarious purposes. Not many reasons I can think of.

 

[triforcharity]

he did "swung on a bus driver" though. Maybe the bus driver asked him what was he doing on the bus.

[qimg]http://z6mag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/swung-on-bus-driver.jpg[/qimg]

Why is there a RIP Trey Twitter Handle, and the date of Feb. 21st on the same page?

Something doesn't add up there.....

 

[Freddy]

Are you incapable of looking at the evidence objectively in this case ?

Obviously people can and do disagree about some issues ... and I don't claim it's necessarily relevant to the case, either ... but that @no_limit_****** was his twitter account is really not in doubt.

I was also under the impression that it was really his feed. But since it contains nothing I would be surprised to see coming from a teenage boy, and nothing probative of any material fact pertaining to this case, I don't really care enough to argue about its authenticity or track down the evidence that gave me that impression. I suggest we all drop the subject, since it does not matter at all who is right or whether the twitter feed is actually Martin's. That makes it a derail, IMO.

 

[nadsat]

Why is there a RIP Trey Twitter Handle, and the date of Feb. 21st on the same page?

Something doesn't add up there.....

you can change your twitter username any time and it'll update it with your tweet history.

 

[triforcharity]

you can change your twitter username any time and it'll update it with your tweet history.

Ok, gotcha.

I'm still skeptical of this. I mean, I saw the CIA and Osama posting on FB, looked exactly like a FB comment, but yet, we know that was fake. Amusing, but fake.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Ok, gotcha.

I'm still skeptical of this. I mean, I saw the CIA and Osama posting on FB, looked exactly like a FB comment, but yet, we know that was fake. Amusing, but fake.

I don't think anyone can say with certainty that it's legit, but I believe it's been pretty widely reported as such, and the comparisons to phony GZ posters, or your comparison above don't hold water. This was someone posting as TM BEFORE any of this took place. So there wasn't a whole lot of reason for someone to be pretending to be TM at that point in time. Sure, it could have been one of his friends pulling a hoax on him, but really??

 

[curi0us]

To be fair, any lawyer with experience in high profile cases understands the PR game and calculates accordingly. While it is possible that was the only picture available at the time, it is hardly far-fetched to suspect that the picture was chosen with an eye toward influencing public perception of the case to the benefit of the client. I'd say it's more likely than not, in fact. I have no idea whether it actually influenced the person in question, though. If that's what you're disputing, I have no opinion.

I appreciate your fair minded response. I actually previously posted family photos of TM the Martins had all along to debunk the claim that maybe they didn't have other pictures available to use. Quoting myself from a while back:

There was debate before over how manipulative the young looking TM photo should be viewed on the grounds that the Martin family may not have had better photos so I thought these more recent TM photos the family had were relevant:
http://globalgrind.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-Prom-Picture-Photos-exclusive?gpage=2#gtop

Note the above linked photo of TM in a suit with glasses counters every negative stereotype of TM there could be but it has one obvious problem. TM is clearly a older teenager/ young man and not a "little boy" in that photo. I also note my post Johnny Karate refuses to consider includes the cites to back up the claim that it was the Crump + Tracy Martin who were pushing the misinfo that GZ outweighed TM by 110lbs.

Since Cutcher was speaking at the podium of a press conference set up by Crump and she referred to TM as a "little boy" and she said TM was "half the size" of GZ then it seems fair for me to ask a simple question;

Where did Cutcher get those clearly wrong ideas from?

If anyone has any evidence that is different then what I've suggested I would like to see it.

 

[nadsat]

RIP_TRAY9 is still up but his tweets are protected:

https://twitter.com/#!/RIP_TRAY9

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

curi0us, if they had posted that photo of him in a suit, do you think the outrage would have been any less?! I suppose it might have changed the narrative a bit, but the case would otherwise seem to me to be every bit as heart wrenching and likely to inflame people.

It's clear that Cutcher came up with her comments based on what she saw in the media, but she's a very small and irrelevant part of this story IMO.

 

[johnny karate]

I don't see where it means a lot but why does a teenage boy have a screwdriver at school other than nefarious purposes. Not many reasons I can think of.

And I can't think of any particular reason why someone would arm himself to take a drive to the store.

 

[Checkmite]

Since Cutcher was speaking at the podium of a press conference set up by Crump and she referred to TM as a "little boy" and she said TM was "half the size" of GZ then it seems fair for me to ask a simple question;

Where did Cutcher get those clearly wrong ideas from?

Same place the original photo of Zimmerman came from more like as not: the last police case file on Zimmerman. I can believe the man in that mugshot could have outweighed Martin by much. Aside from whatever the police told them directly, that earlier case file is the only place they could've gotten any information about Zimmerman. They never met him or his parents.

 

[curi0us]

I don't see evidence in that post, merely a bunch of connect-the-dots, circumstantial nonsense. Which, if memory serves, is explicitly what I asked you not to provide.

I'm willing to bet you have no idea what "circumstantial" even means. I have supplied a very clear narrative with cites to back it up. All you have is wishful thinking that somehow Cutcher mysteriously hallucinated that TM was a "little boy" that was "half the size" of GZ independent of any exposure to the TM PR campaign.

If there weren't explosives planted in WTC7, why do you think it collapsed in its own footprint?

Because the force that caused the buildings to fall was gravity and it pulls objects directly down.

If JFK and Connally were struck with the same bullet, why do you think that bullet was found in pristine condition?

It wasn't in pristine condition, especially when viewed from the front it was very obviously deformed.

I have no idea what you were thinking when you thought asking me old CT questions would make a point but since I answered them now you answer mine.

Where do you think Cutcher got the idea that TM was a "little boy" and that he was "half the size" of GZ?

 

[Freddy]

curi0us, if they had posted that photo of him in a suit, do you think the outrage would have been any less?! I suppose it might have changed the narrative a bit, but the case would otherwise seem to me to be every bit as heart wrenching and likely to inflame people.

It's clear that Cutcher came up with her comments based on what she saw in the media, but she's a very small and irrelevant part of this story IMO.

How recent was the photo of him in a suit? If it were recent, then I absolutely think the outrage would have been less. And not just less, but limited to the fringe crazies. The objection to the picture that was initially all over the news is that it is a picture of a boy who looks about twelve. No one would fear the boy in that photo. Size and physical maturity are very important when the question is whether Zimmerman's story that he was overpowered by Martin is credible, and thus whether it is believable that Zimmerman reasonably feared for his life. It is perfectly legitimate and fair to object to the use of a photo of a twelve or thirteen year old Trayvon in that context. That objection has nothing to do with real or imagined "thugishness," or how he is dressed.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm willing to bet you have no idea what "circumstantial" even means.

Well, let's see:
cir·cum·stan·tial
(of evidence or a legal case) Pointing indirectly toward someone's guilt but not conclusively proving it

Nope, looks like I've got a pretty good handle on it.

I have supplied a very clear narrative with cites to back it up. All you have is wishful thinking that somehow Cutcher mysteriously hallucinated that TM was a "little boy" that was "half the size" of GZ independent of any exposure to the TM PR campaign.

Many conspiracy theories start with "I have supplied a very clear narrative...". Very few of them start with "I have actual evidence and here it is...".

I have no idea what you were thinking when you thought asking me old CT questions would make a point but since I answered them now you answer mine.

Where do you think Cutcher got the idea that TM was a "little boy" and that he was "half the size" of GZ?

Odd that you would excise the portion of my post that clearly explained the point I was making. So I'll just go ahead and repeat it:

It's not up to me to assume your premise and then do the work to disprove your theory.

It's up to you to prove your theory by providing actual, concrete evidence of its veracity.

 

[Freddy]

Same place the original photo of Zimmerman came from more like as not: the last police case file on Zimmerman. I can believe the man in that mugshot could have outweighed Martin by much. Aside from whatever the police told them directly, that earlier case file is the only place they could've gotten any information about Zimmerman. They never met him or his parents.

I think he was wondering where the idea about Martin's size came from. Martin was more than a couple inches taller than Zimmerman, but from the photo of Martin that was initially out there, Martin looked like he was about 12 years old, maybe 5'6" at most, and 120 pounds soaking wet. It turns out Martin was 6 feet tall and about 160 pounds. That makes a difference.