General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[BaaBaa]

Adolf Hitler had more skills than you are going to achieve in your whole life...

"Hitler, there was a painter! He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon! Two coats! "

Hitler was actually fairly lazy in his day to day routine- he'd watch movies all night and sleep to noon, according to some people who were at Berchtesgaden.

Just think: the course of history could have been changed if somebody sent an XBox back through time to 1933....

 

[dafydd]

Of course they expected to get away with it. They were doing it for the fatherland and expected to win the war.

ST is upset because my Dad and his mates wiped the floor with his heroes.

 

[dafydd]

"Hitler, there was a painter! He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon! Two coats! "

Hitler was actually fairly lazy in his day to day routine- he'd watch movies all night and sleep to noon, according to some people who were at Berchtesgaden.

Just think: the course of history could have been changed if somebody sent an XBox back through time to 1933....

He used to sit up till all hours boring the arses off his entourage. Nobody else was allowed to talk.

 

[BaaBaa]

Some of his dopey crap is quoted in "Hitler's Scientists". He seemed to be one of those "it's just common sense!" sorts of scientific illiterates.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I'd like to pose a poll on Holocaust denial, a la the Apollo Hoax poll to the forum, both out of curiosity, as well as to provide an opportunity for lurkers to make their opinions known.

The 'General Holocaust Denial Discussion Thread' has seen many more participants than the Apollo Hoax threads, but I suspect as with the Moon Hoax thread there are those whose opinions have not been made known, who might like to voice them without the trauma of venturing into that den of iniquity.

Ostracization is why the Holocaust lie works so well for Zionism. Any disagreement with Holocaust "facts" is politically incorrect.

Note the tone of the anti-revisionists. They have been convinced to equate Holocaust revisionism with hate of Jewish people. The hate they spew is unnatural for a discussion of history. Who stokes that hate? Liars like Steven Spielberg and Eli Wiesel.

 

[LSSBB]

Ostracization is why the Holocaust lie works so well for Zionism. Any disagreement with Holocaust "facts" is politically incorrect.

Note the tone of the anti-revisionists. They have been convinced to equate Holocaust revisionism with hate of Jewish people. The hate they spew is unnatural for a discussion of history. Who stokes that hate? Liars like Steven Spielberg and Eli Wiesel.

No, what stokes them is their own knowledge of history and of families shattered and lives torn assunder, coupled with their sense of decency. I haven't even seen Spielberg's Holocaust works, nor read Eli Wiesel, and I am not alone. Remember, a war was fought to defeat the Nazis because they were bent on domination - and the revisionists are trying to make them look not so bad.

 

[Clayton Moore]

No, what stokes them is their own knowledge of history and of families shattered and lives torn assunder, coupled with their sense of decency. I haven't even seen Spielberg's Holocaust works, nor read Eli Wiesel, and I am not alone.

Yeah, there you go.

 

[Nick Terry]

Yeah, there you go.

Uh, no, actually. Your claim is that 'liars' like Spielberg and Wiesel stoke 'hate'.

If people don't watch Spielberg or read Wiesel and still think you're craptastically wrong, then your claim is shot down in flames.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Uh, no, actually. Your claim is that 'liars' like Spielberg and Wiesel stoke 'hate'.

If people don't watch Spielberg or read Wiesel and still think you're craptastically wrong, then your claim is shot down in flames.

How can someone know Spielberg or Wiesel are liars if they are not familiar with their lies? Lies that are swept under the lies like a rug rug.

 

[000063]

It's lies all the way down.

Uh, no, actually. Your claim is that 'liars' like Spielberg and Wiesel stoke 'hate'.

If people don't watch Spielberg or read Wiesel and still think you're craptastically wrong, then your claim is shot down in flames.

...said Doc Terry, as if reality had any bearing on what Moore thought were the facts.

 

[Tomtomkent]

How can someone know Spielberg or Wiesel are liars if they are not familiar with their lies? Lies that are swept under the lies like a rug rug.

Wow. It's a good job that the chap described other sources that point towards the conclusion you appear to dislike Spielberg et al for reaching.

It's almost as though he didn't like Holocaust Revisionism for the revisions of history they attempt to make and not because of their opinions of individuals. So very almost, that he even goes so far as to actually voice that opinion! My gosh LSBB is capable of more complex opinions than the sentence you wish to argue against?

Shocking.

 

[LemmyCaution]

You got it very wrong.

Allies and Soviets were the ones which killed the Germans.

Germans soldiers died willing to defend the nation until the capital was defeated.

Caring for his volks, the Fuhrer issued the Nero order in March 1945, having said of the forced population evacuations - now of Germans - in advance of the enemy armies, "We can no longer take regard of the population." He decreed that "All military transport, communications, industrial and supply installations as well as material assets within Reich territory, which the enemy can render usable immediately or within the foreseeable future, are to be destroyed." The Fuhrer, further caring for his volks, with his many skills, told Speer, "If the war is lost, then the people is lost too. . . . [T]he people had shown itself to be the weaker, and the future belongs to the stronger people of the East." As the Fuhrer put it, the volks had let him down, so, caring for them, he sought to destroy the material basis for their existence.

 

[ddt]

How can someone know Spielberg or Wiesel are liars if they are not familiar with their lies? Lies that are swept under the lies like a rug rug.

It's immaterial if Spielberg or Wiesel are liars or not, and LSSSB didn't address that question at all. History is researched, analyzed and written by historians, not by Hollywood directors. There's hundreds, nay, thousands of historical studies addressing the Holocaust, and they say clearly you, CM, are utterly wrong. FWIW, I haven't read any work of Wiesel's and have seen Schindler's List only years later on TV.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

"Nieuwsblad van het Noorden", published the same day [April 14, 1943] in a different region of the Netherlands [Groningen].
"Article 5. jood in den zin van deze beschikking is hij die ingevolge Artikel 4 van de verordening 189/40 betr. de aanmelding van ondernemingen jood is of als jood wordt aangemerkt"
http://resources2.kb.nl/010410000/pdf/DDD_010414078.pdf

"My translation - Article 5. Jew for the purpose of this ordinance is he who in accordance with article 4 of VO 189/40 regarding the registration of businesses is a Jew or is considered a Jew."

Verordening 189/40 - 22 October 1940
Article 4:
"Begrip ‘Jood
1. Jood is een ieder, die uit ten minste drie naar ras voljoodse grootouders stamt.
2. Als Jood wordt ook aangemerkt hij die uit twee voljoodse grootouders stamt en
1) hetzij zelf op de negende mei 1940 tot de joodskerkelijke gemeente heeft behoord of na die datum daarin wordt opgenomen,
2) hetzij op de negende mei 1940 met een Jood was gehuwd of na dat ogenblik met een Jood in het huwelijk treedt.
3. Een grootouder wordt als voljoods aangemerkt, wanneer deze tot de joods-kerkelijke gemeenschap heeft behoord."
Reproduced in: Jacques Presser - Ondergang. (1965) - Online at:
http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/pres003onde01_01/pres003onde01_01_0006.php

English translation:
"Article 4 Definition of Jews
1. Jews are all persons whose grandparents included three or more full Jews by race. (and see 3 below.)
2. Persons with two fully Jewish grandparents are deemed to be Jews if either
(a) belonged to the the Jewish religious community on 9 May 1940 (or subsequently joined it);
(b) or were married to a Jew on 9 May 1940 or after that date.
3. Grandparent is deemed a full Jew if he was at any time a member of the Jewish religious congregation."
From Ashes in the Wind, Jacques Presser - page 34 (1968) - depending on your location this translation may be accessible online through Google books.
Below the text of the excerpt from VO 189/40 Presser added this comment:"We shall frequently advert to Article 4, since it was to rear its ugly head in all principal instruments of Nazi Oppression"

Presser of course also made note of the implications of the implementation of the other paragraphs of verordeningen like VO 189/40.

In the 1968 edition of his "Ashes in the Wind" one of his observations from "Ondergang" is translated as follows:
"One day someone should write a monograph on that den of thieves, the offices of Lippmann, Rosenthal & Co. in Amsterdam. No doubt he will wish to refer to one of the directors, whose income of 100,000 guilders a year shows how much credence must be given to attacks on Jewish materialism by the Nazis."

It gets the meaning across but not quite the tone of biting sarcasm he used in his original Dutch text. Which is a great pity.imo. If anybody has a later edition of Ashes in the Wind I'd be interested to know if this was translated differently:
"Misschien dat een doctorandus op zoek naar het onderwerp voor een dissertatie zich nog eens waagt aan deze materie. Hij zal dan zeker
niet kunnen nalaten, het rovershol zelf te schilderen, waarin deze uitplundering zich voltrok, het zo vaak genoemde Lippmann Rosenthal, Sarphatistraat. Hij zal dan enkele van de hierbij leiding gevende hoofdlieden vrij intiem kunnen kennen; zelfs is van een hunner een belastingbiljet bewaard gebleven, waarop een inkomen prijkt van honderdduizenden guldens, een bedrag - laat ons innig hopen, dat het precies opgegeven is - dat slechts heel in de verte de gedachten oproept aan de meergenoemde ascese, welke alle Noordvolk, zeker in de ure des gevaars, zo gemakkelijk aanwaait in tegenstelling tot het vuige materialisme, zo kenmerkend voor de Jood."

It is quite obvious that the significance of VO 189/40 was recognized years before this thread was started and that posting a link for a site with the full text in this thread after references were made in earlier comments is anything but random. VO 6/1941 just happens to be on the same page "aus dem urteil gegen den befehlshaber der sipo und des sd in den niederlanden"
http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/excerpts/64507.htm

"Angeklagten Dr. Har." who could that be? Has his name perhaps come up before, Snaketongue?

"No denier denies... Our only point of contention is ... the two points of contention are ... "Those are the three points of contention." "Four ... those are the four points of contention ..." Har, Har.

 

[floghammer]

Presser of course also made note of the implications of the implementation of the other paragraphs of verordeningen like VO 189/40.

In the 1968 edition of his "Ashes in the Wind" one of his observations from "Ondergang" is translated as follows:
"One day someone should write a monograph on that den of thieves, the offices of Lippmann, Rosenthal & Co. in Amsterdam. No doubt he will wish to refer to one of the directors, whose income of 100,000 guilders a year shows how much credence must be given to attacks on Jewish materialism by the Nazis."

It gets the meaning across but not quite the tone of biting sarcasm he used in his original Dutch text. Which is a great pity.imo. If anybody has a later edition of Ashes in the Wind I'd be interested to know if this was translated differently:
"Misschien dat een doctorandus op zoek naar het onderwerp voor een dissertatie zich nog eens waagt aan deze materie. Hij zal dan zeker
niet kunnen nalaten, het rovershol zelf te schilderen, waarin deze uitplundering zich voltrok, het zo vaak genoemde Lippmann Rosenthal, Sarphatistraat. Hij zal dan enkele van de hierbij leiding gevende hoofdlieden vrij intiem kunnen kennen; zelfs is van een hunner een belastingbiljet bewaard gebleven, waarop een inkomen prijkt van honderdduizenden guldens, een bedrag - laat ons innig hopen, dat het precies opgegeven is - dat slechts heel in de verte de gedachten oproept aan de meergenoemde ascese, welke alle Noordvolk, zeker in de ure des gevaars, zo gemakkelijk aanwaait in tegenstelling tot het vuige materialisme, zo kenmerkend voor de Jood."

It is quite obvious that the significance of VO 189/40 was recognized years before this thread was started and that posting a link for a site with the full text in this thread after references were made in earlier comments is anything but random. VO 6/1941 just happens to be on the same page "aus dem urteil gegen den befehlshaber der sipo und des sd in den niederlanden"
http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/excerpts/64507.htm

"Angeklagten Dr. Har." who could that be? Has his name perhaps come up before, Snaketongue?

"No denier denies... Our only point of contention is ... the two points of contention are ... "Those are the three points of contention." "Four ... those are the four points of contention ..." Har, Har.

??

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

??

Bravo. You've distilled your contributions to their essence. Don't change a thing.

 

[Clayton Moore]

??

The key to the Holocaust lie is that none of Team Holocaust can explain who performed the labor and the specific mechanics of the labor/tasks involved from start to finish.

Another black hole is why there were fully staffed hospitals in the alleged extermination camps.

??

 

[000063]

The key to the Holocaust lie is that none of Team Holocaust can explain who performed the labor and the specific mechanics of the labor/tasks involved from start to finish.

I don't know who fired the shell that killed the boat Grandpa was on, but he is nonetheless dead. I don't know who ran the hospice where my grandmother died, but she is dead. Appeal to impossible perfection.

Another black hole is why there were fully staffed hospitals in the alleged extermination camps.

??

What are you talking about? Please provide evidence.

 

[ddt]

What are you talking about? Please provide evidence.

Maybe Clayton refers to the "hospital" at Treblinka:

Those victims who were too weak to reach the gas chambers on their own were told they would receive medical attention. Members of the Sonderkommando carried them to a camouflaged area, which was disguised -- with a Red Cross flag -- as a hospital. There, SS and police personnel shot them.

 

[LemmyCaution]

The key to the Holocaust lie is that none of Team Holocaust can explain who performed the labor and the specific mechanics of the labor/tasks involved from start to finish.

Another black hole is why there were fully staffed hospitals in the alleged extermination camps.

??

The key to denial is ignoring every explanation - or twisting specific explanations into strawmen, as you continually do concerning the deportation and extermination process, as SnakeTongue did with his claim that anyone has argued Jews murdered Jews, and as your chum Dogzilla tried doing with his lies about what I argued concerning the Jaeger report. In fact, all these issues are quite well known and explained in many sources, yet they are a mystery to you because you are subliterate on the topic.