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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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Incorrect. She was at the wake and was quite distraught. She has info that has not been released.

She is also a minor and I find the posting of her name and that disgusting website to be in very poor taste and judgement.

They only published the name associated with a twitter account.

If you believe that is her, it appears Crump has told numerous lies.

And the official story is Tracy Martin contacted her 2 weeks after TM death. after he saw the phone records. She did not attend any services for TM.
 
There is also a dog poop deposit station very close to where things happened. There is some speculation that might have been what GZ hit. Alternately, GZ might have slipped in the wet grass, fell and hit his head, was pissed off and went after TM.

There are several theories about how GZ might have been hurt. We won't know until the evidence is released.

Personally, I think he slipped on a banana peel. That usually makes me mad enough to start shootin!
 
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I wonder how the prosecution will get around the statement from the Sanford PD regarding why they did not arrest George Zimmerman?

It basically says that at the time, the evidence and testimony supported a self defense claim made by Zimmerman. It says that Zimmerman's statement was supported by the evidence and testimony taken that night.

And it now looks like Sanford PD actually did a good initial investigation, including grilling GZ and making him do physical demonstrations.

They will have to show that the evidence and testimony has changed, or that Sanford PD is incompetent. Or something.
They don't need to get around anything. That was then, this is now.
 
To me the injuries are irrelevant. The second Zimmerman decided to be a neighborhood watch paranoid and report Martin for doing nothing made everything that happened after that and until the shooting inconsequential.

I don't care if TM laid in the bushes, ambushed him and wailed on Zimmerman's head mercilessly with the intent to put him in a coma. Zimmerman had that coming to him at that point.
If 12 blacks are the jury they might agree with you. Still, murder 2 seems a stretch.

You completely discount GZ's version of events which have yet to be demonstrated false by any evidence so far made public. IMO GZ is not a fast enough thinker (probably in shock from beating and subsequent killing) to have fabricated his detailed account.

You have a problem with hispanics who do seem to be a drain on Calif resources: justice system, welfare system, school system, medical system, etc?
 
I suspect that in most cases of bogus self-defense claims there will be substantial circumstantial evidence of guilt.
I seriously doubt that.

For instance, there could be evidence that establishes a believable motive other than self-defense. There are often also non-trivial inconsistencies in the defendant's statements. A person who is truthfully asserting self-defense is typically going to give statements to police, because telling the truth keeps them from being arrested for murder. In order to appear innocent, a person falsely claiming self-defense will do the same. But it's really hard to (1) come up with a detailed story that is internally consistent and consistent with any other evidence there may be, and (2) remember every important detail you tell the police so that your story doesn't change, at least not in ways that indicate lying rather than understandable blurring of memory. (Some minor inconsistencies are expected even from a truthful person, so that's something that has to be assessed case by case. But depending on the particulars, an inconsistency can be compelling evidence of guilt.)

I think those who are claiming that the Stand Your Ground law is effectively a license to kill are mistaken. At least they are mistaken that the "stand your ground" aspect makes it significantly easier to get away with murder. Even if there's a duty to retreat, that just means that a person falsely claiming self-defense has to make sure he tells the cops he either tried to get away, or believed it would be impossible or unsafe to try to get away. Or tell a story such that no one would think retreat was an option. If there are no witnesses, there are no witnesses to dispute whether safe retreat was possible any more than to dispute whether the deceased was the aggressor.

Some of the procedural aspects of the law might make it more difficult to prosecute murders where the killer falsely claims self-defense, but even then, the procedural presumptions for those claiming self-defense will generally only be helpful in situations where the person would not be convicted anyway, guilty or not. Consider: All the prosecution has to do to get around the immunity from prosecution is to show probable cause. The presumption does not stop them from investigating, and they can question the shooter under the same rules as any suspect in any crime. If the state can show probable cause, then the defendant has the opportunity to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that it was self defense. But if there is no probable cause, or if the defendant can show by a preponderance of the evidence that it was self defense, then how on earth could the prosecution ever prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not self defense? So again, the immunity isn't going to protect a person who could be convicted at trial. There are no special rules unique to Florida that make the trial itself more favorable to the defense when self-defense is claimed, so the prosecution does not have to prove anything it doesn't have to prove in any self-defense case anywhere in the country. The standard of reasonable fear of death or serious bodily injury is the law everywhere in the United States. If the state can't show probable cause, or can't prove something by a preponderance of the evidence in a pretrial hearing, then they aren't going to be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt at trial.
Of course there "could be". The problem is that in the heat of the moment the difference between justifiable and not justifiable is simply a state of mind. Fights happen all of the time without people dying. Tell me that you can look at those fights from the perspective of only one person involved and know with a degree of certainty what the facts are? What his state of mind was? One need not embellish the truth about the events. One need not even say anything other than "I feared for my life". Presumption of innocence. The defendant doesn't need to demonstrate anything. He just needs to keep his mouth shut. From my perspective, you make an awful lot of unwarranted assumptions. But all of that is largely irrelevant.

IMO: The problem lies in the fact that Zimmerman will not likely be convicted even if his actions were reckless. If the simple fact is that he decided to follow and confront Martin while he had a gun believing Martin to be suspicious, that would not be considered reckless. I think it should be. If the premise is correct then I think it painfully obvious that Zimmerman substantively contributed to the death of Zimmerman and his actions were unnecessary. And the message I'm getting is that it simply doesn't matter. Zimmerman has a right to act in such a way as to increase the likelihood of harm or death unnecessarily. He has no duty to try to avoid a confrontation.
 
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First of all, I've never stated Zimmerman didn't have a broken nose. I only made the observation that it doesn't look like it in that video, but you can't really tell one way or the other:



Secondly, you seem very dismissive of triforcharity's opinion regarding the cuts on Zimmerman's head. It's not as if he didn't give his reasons for the opinion he offered.

If you disagree with his assessment, are you able to offer anything to counter it other then a flippant hand-wave?

He won't. He has me on ignore. But, I'd love to see him try.
 
Can a cut require stitches, but not bleed a lot?

Sure, but not on the head. Heads bleed A LOT! You might experience this somewhere there is a lot of fatty tissue, like a rear cheek, or maybe a calf, but heads, not so much. I would find a head lac, serious enough for stitches, that's not bleeding, or minimally bleeding, very unusual. In fact, I would be more worried about some other condition, like extremely low blood pressure, or poor circulation, than the initial wound itself.
 
What kind of professional offers a medical opinion on a patient he's never seen based on an Internet photo ? Hey, I hear you can get free legal advice from the Internet too ! :rolleyes:

Someone will have to quote me, because he has me on ignore...:rolleyes:

First off, I was asked my professional opinion.

I looked at the photo, and noted a few things. I even spelled them out, but, conveniently, you missed that. Get off your ass and read it, before you try to attack my position. You didn't even read it, so how can you even begin to critique my assessment? You're afraid to read it, because you CANNOT dispute it. It's based on logic and facts, and your opinion is based on your dislike of me.

Bias much?

So, if you wanna attack me personally, at least read my position, and my reasoning, before so. At least then I would have a little respect for you.

So, get off your ass and go read it. Johnny already linked to the first one. Press the "View Post" link to see it. It's really not difficult.

Then, once you've read it, then respond, and tell me what I got wrong. That is, if you'll get off your ass and do it. But, I doubt it.

You're too afraid that I am absolutely right, and it will lead to you not being able to call me wrong, or admit that I am right, and you weren't.

Dare you.
 
Unpack this?

The sense I get id of somebody with very low self-esteem. Being neighborhood watch made him feel like his life had some value, now that is gone and turned to ashes. And now he has a major stressor, namely, the prospect of a long prison sentence, and the fear that he isn't safe walking the streets ANYWHERE. That idiosyncratic web site he posted seemed to me to be a rather pathetic attempt to be OK with himself again.

Just observations - I have known a lot of mentally ill people in my life, and have seen how these things play out too frequently.
 
A senate seat or governors seat? The chance to self-promote? This appears to be a repugnant woman who wants to charge an abused 12-year old as an adult and sentence him life in prison, and wants him in the general population with adults. What horrific crime did he do to deserve this? I mean, you'd expect something especially horrific, right? He evidently shoved his 2-year old brother into a bookcase twice. Then his messed up Mom didn't get him treatment for 5 hours and he ended up dying.

http://antonia-monacelli.hubpages.com/hub/Murderous-Children-Cristian-Fernandez

Please note, that's the first article I've found so feel free to correct me if it's not accurate. But if it is, what type of prosecutor attempts to put a 12-year old in prison with adults for life with those types of circumstances?

Problem here NBS. A juvenile would NEVER be housed in the same building with adults. Ever. It would never happen.
 
And you're proud of this opinion and want to share it with others :p?

BTW, crazy idea here. If TM "laid in the bushes, ambushed him and wailed on Zimmerman's head mercilessly with the intent to put him in a coma", wouldn't that mean GZ wasn't paranoid and was right about him?

Travis - if the bolded section were true, GZ would have a legit self defense claim just about anywhere, let alone Fla.

I'm not talking about what is relevant to law. I'm talking about what is relevant to me. There is a reason it would be terrible for me to be on a jury in this case: I'm biased.

As far as I am personally concerned he had it coming just by being in a neighborhood watch program. I've never liked them and never will. Bunch of no good bullies that do nothing except harass people that aren't doing anything wrong. I'd really like to see them outlawed but I can't figure out a way to effectively do it.



If 12 blacks are the jury they might agree with you. Still, murder 2 seems a stretch.

You completely discount GZ's version of events which have yet to be demonstrated false by any evidence so far made public. IMO GZ is not a fast enough thinker (probably in shock from beating and subsequent killing) to have fabricated his detailed account.

You have a problem with hispanics who do seem to be a drain on Calif resources: justice system, welfare system, school system, medical system, etc?

You assume my issue with Zimmerman is his race? Why?
 
Sure, but not on the head. Heads bleed A LOT! You might experience this somewhere there is a lot of fatty tissue, like a rear cheek, or maybe a calf, but heads, not so much. I would find a head lac, serious enough for stitches, that's not bleeding, or minimally bleeding, very unusual. In fact, I would be more worried about some other condition, like extremely low blood pressure, or poor circulation, than the initial wound itself.

I'm reminded of the time that my son, who was 2 at the time, fell out of his pushchair* and banged his forehead on the pavement. Blood was streaming down his face, it looked really serious. But when I cleaned him up the injury was only about a millimetre in diameter. I think his head hit a tiny piece of gravel on the pavement, causing a little puncture mark which led to all that blood.

*He had just learned how to undo the safety buckle on the reins keeping him in...
 

I've heard Crump himself make two different claims. I don't think it's fair that I ask you to take me on my word, since 5 pages ago, I blatantly made a conclusion based on something that was never said. If someone else remembers this, please back me up.

At one point, maybe three weeks ago, Crump stated that DeeDee was at the wake and he was the one that told her that she was the last person to speak to him. She collapsed and was brought to the hospital and put on observation for twelve hours. The doctor released her on strict, avoid stress orders.

Then I heard that she was so distraught she couldn't even attend the services. When they were calling for witnesses during the initial investigation, she didn't want to talk to the police because, for some reason, she was afraid of them before she had any ligit reason to be afraid because they were still investigating.
 
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