Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Natural Born Skeptic]

Can you link to the stitches claim from the lawyer?

This stitches thing is another red herring people (not you) are grasping at. Those lawyers were incompetent boobs who never even met with him in person. Did they say he needed them, or should have had them? Either way, what does it matter? A quite minor injury can requite stitches, so saying he needed them does not mean they were claiming he had "serious" injuries.

 

[RandFan]

Can a cut require stitches, but not bleed a lot?

I think anything is possible. However I would think stitching would be required to avoid infection and/or a more serious scar.

 

[johnny karate]

The lawyer who was not his lawyer and only spoke over the phone briefly.

Yes, and the speed with which Zimmerman's new lawyer released a statement to clarify those claims...

Oh... that's right.

So let's supposed for second Sonner went on CNN and completely fabricated everything he said without Zimmerman's consent or knowledge.
Well, this happened almost a month ago.

If someone tells a lie on your behalf, and you let the lie go unchallenged because it benefits you.. what does that make you?

I don't think that claim counts for much, even though I agree with it for the cut on the right side of his head.

Awesome. The medical professional who posted earlier disagrees with you.

 

[johnny karate]

A quite minor injury can requite stitches, so saying he needed them does not mean they were claiming he had "serious" injuries.

I think it's adorable they way the one medical professional who offered an opinion in this thread is being summarily dismissed, while laypersons keep chiming in with their uninformed opinions.

All the while, anyone who disputed Zimmerman's broken nose claim is being mocked as an "Internet doctor".

Skepticism at its finest.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Because Zimmerman's lawyer went on national television and told the world his wounds were serious enough to require stitches. Along with statements made by members of Zimmerman's family, this has created a narrative in which Zimmerman was the victim of a savage beating at the hands of Martin.

As evidence comes to light that disputes this claim, Zimmerman's credibility goes in the toilet. And considering that at this point all we have to substantiate Zimmerman's self-defense claim is his word, I'd say the issue of his credibility is pretty damn important.

And I'd say the only thing you have disputing this narrative is an internet forum member declaring GZ lacerations aren't severe based on a photo. Do you really find that puts GZ credibility in the toilet ?

Otherwise, lacerations bleeding on the back of the head, broken nose, fat lip. Sounds like he was being beaten as claimed.

Again, the only measurable claim of severity I am aware of was "serious enough it probably should have had stitches ... there was an option not to stitch it up because it had already started healing, is my understanding," I don't know how you think anyone could disprove that statement ?

 

[Cylinder]

If someone tells a lie on your behalf, and you let the lie go unchallenged because it benefits you.. what does that make you?

It makes you smart if you aniticipate the possibility of being a criminal defendant. Do you really think his attorney's advice was, The most important thing for you to do at this point is to make as many random statements to the media as you think neccessary to make people believe you?"

That's really not the way it works.

Also, what happened to the attorney that made that claim in the media?

 

[Travis]

Imaginary Scenario. Man is walking home. Man gets attacked by a mugger and is beaten. His nose is broken and his head has lacerations and is bleeding. Man pulls out gun and shoots mugger during the struggle, claiming fear for his life. How many people would be arguing his injuries were not severe enough to warrant shooting in self-defense?

To me the injuries are irrelevant. The second Zimmerman decided to be a neighborhood watch paranoid and report Martin for doing nothing made everything that happened after that and until the shooting inconsequential.

I don't care if TM laid in the bushes, ambushed him and wailed on Zimmerman's head mercilessly with the intent to put him in a coma. Zimmerman had that coming to him at that point.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

To me the injuries are irrelevant. The second Zimmerman decided to be a neighborhood watch paranoid and report Martin for doing nothing made everything that happened after that and until the shooting inconsequential.

I don't care if TM laid in the bushes, ambushed him and wailed on Zimmerman's head mercilessly with the intent to put him in a coma. Zimmerman had that coming to him at that point.

And you're proud of this opinion and want to share it with others ?

BTW, crazy idea here. If TM "laid in the bushes, ambushed him and wailed on Zimmerman's head mercilessly with the intent to put him in a coma", wouldn't that mean GZ wasn't paranoid and was right about him?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

I think it's adorable they way the one medical professional who offered an opinion in this thread is being summarily dismissed, while laypersons keep chiming in with their uninformed opinions.

What kind of professional offers a medical opinion on a patient he's never seen based on an Internet photo ? Hey, I hear you can get free legal advice from the Internet too !

All the while, anyone who disputed Zimmerman's broken nose claim is being mocked as an "Internet doctor".

Because they were all making a medical claim about a person they don't know based on a low resolution video on the Internet.

Skepticism at its finest.

I know, right ?

 

[johnny karate]

And I'd say the only thing you have disputing this narrative is an internet forum member declaring GZ lacerations aren't severe based on a photo.

And a video showing no apparent injuries and no bandages.

And a photo showing two relatively minor cuts and a minimal amount of blood.

Do you really find that puts GZ credibility in the toilet ?

I think it's certainly headed that way. And the inconsistencies in his testimony regarding Martin's age and his reasoning for killing him aren't helping.

Otherwise, lacerations bleeding on the back of the head, broken nose, fat lip. Sounds like he was being beaten as claimed.

No, it sounds like he was being beaten. Just not as claimed.

Again, the only measurable claim of severity I am aware of was "serious enough it probably should have had stitches ... there was an option not to stitch it up because it had already started healing, is my understanding," I don't know how you think anyone could disprove that statement ?

By having a medical professional look at the initial wounds and determining if they appear to need stitches. You know, like triforcharity already did.

You're also forgetting about the "enhanced" images showing Zimmerman had a long, vertical gash on the back of his head, now proven to be wrong.

And the story Zimmerman's father tells of a relentless beating at the hands of the vicious Trayvon Martin.

All part and parcel of creating a narrative that Zimmerman suffered a severe assault to justify the fact that he shot and killed someone.

 

[johnny karate]

It makes you smart if you aniticipate the possibility of being a criminal defendant. Do you really think his attorney's advice was, The most important thing for you to do at this point is to make as many random statements to the media as you think neccessary to make people believe you?"

That's really not the way it works.

I'm not saying Zimmerman doesn't have a rationale for being dishonest, just pointing out the dishonesty.

Also, what happened to the attorney that made that claim in the media?

He quit.

 

[BStrong]

To me the injuries are irrelevant. The second Zimmerman decided to be a neighborhood watch paranoid and report Martin for doing nothing made everything that happened after that and until the shooting inconsequential.

I don't care if TM laid in the bushes, ambushed him and wailed on Zimmerman's head mercilessly with the intent to put him in a coma. Zimmerman had that coming to him at that point.

Travis - if the bolded section were true, GZ would have a legit self defense claim just about anywhere, let alone Fla.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

What kind of professional offers a medical opinion on a patient he's never seen based on an Internet photo ? Hey, I hear you can get free legal advice from the Internet too !

Because they were all making a medical claim about a person they don't know based on a low resolution video on the Internet.

I know, right ?

Funny how people get easily confused about this whole "skepticism" thing, isn't it? the single thing that amazes me the most about this thread is the willingness of people to draw conclusions (and I don't just mean state theories) in instances which the only reasonable conclusion should be to say "I don't know" or "I can't say". That's what made the broken nose thing so absurd. How could anyone look at that video and feel they could pronounce he did or didn't have a broken nose? And actually be serious?!

 

[LTC8K6]

Yes, and the speed with which Zimmerman's new lawyer released a statement to clarify those claims...

Oh... that's right.

So let's supposed for second Sonner went on CNN and completely fabricated everything he said without Zimmerman's consent or knowledge.
Well, this happened almost a month ago.

If someone tells a lie on your behalf, and you let the lie go unchallenged because it benefits you.. what does that make you?



Awesome. The medical professional who posted earlier disagrees with you.

There was no lie. It was the opinion of a lawyer. There's nothing to correct. You are making it into what you want it to be, imo.

The medical professional has no more info than you have, and he's a poster on the web, just like you.

There's a report with the truth on it. None of us have seen it. All we have are opinions of what info we are given.

Take it easy.

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

There was no lie. It was the opinion of a lawyer. There's nothing to correct. You are making it into what you want it to be, imo.

The medical professional has no more info than you have, and he's a poster on the web, just like you.

There's a report with the truth on it. None of us have seen it. All we have are opinions of what info we are given.

Take it easy.

I hear GZ's second cousin said he was on the grass and then on the sidewalk as opposed to on the sidewalk and then on the grass. How can you explain this and why hasn't Zimmerman corrected it? The mans a liar!

 

[LTC8K6]

And a video showing no apparent injuries and no bandages.

And a photo showing two relatively minor cuts and a minimal amount of blood.



I think it's certainly headed that way. And the inconsistencies in his testimony regarding Martin's age and his reasoning for killing him aren't helping.



No, it sounds like he was being beaten. Just not as claimed.



By having a medical professional look at the initial wounds and determining if they appear to need stitches. You know, like triforcharity already did.

You're also forgetting about the "enhanced" images showing Zimmerman had a long, vertical gash on the back of his head, now proven to be wrong.

And the story Zimmerman's father tells of a relentless beating at the hands of the vicious Trayvon Martin.

All part and parcel of creating a narrative that Zimmerman suffered a severe assault to justify the fact that he shot and killed someone.

Well, if we are allowed to make stuff up, then we can all just say whatever we want...

I think you are continually making things up, that people didn't actually say.

They sound similar, but they are inaccurate. I think you need to read more carefully and link to your claims of statements made.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

WOW. I never saw that. It's especially amazing because in it they were being truthful about the 911 dispatcher and identified it as a suggestion GZ was not legally bound to follow, instead of the common spin of calling it an order. Yet back in court today I believe they were even trying to pretend it was an "order" again.

Yep, Mara is going to be ALL over that document.

If you liked that one, you'll also like this one:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency

5:56 p.m. EST, April 2, 2012|

Some news agencies have reported that Sanford's lead investigator, Chris Serino, wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter that night but Wolfinger's office put a stop to it. The city of Sanford issued a statement saying that is not true.

Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense.

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."

 

[Natural Born Skeptic]

If you liked that one, you'll also like this one:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._chief-bill-lee-federal-review-federal-agency

5:56 p.m. EST, April 2, 2012|

Some news agencies have reported that Sanford's lead investigator, Chris Serino, wanted Zimmerman charged with manslaughter that night but Wolfinger's office put a stop to it. The city of Sanford issued a statement saying that is not true.

Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense.

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."

Thanks for the link. So Mara will put him on the stand too.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yep, the Sanford police apparently did a decent investigation, and they have said more than once that it supported Zimmerman's account.

The Sanford PD did not just dismiss the case.

They did not just let Zimmerman off.

This is the big hurdle that is not being mentioned.

What did Corey see for a murder 2 charge that the Sanford PD didn't see?

It will have to be big, imo.

 

[johnny karate]

There was no lie. It was the opinion of a lawyer. There's nothing to correct. You are making it into what you want it to be, imo.

As are you. For whatever reason, you view what Zimmerman's lawyer did as a innocuous oopsie without acknowledging the fact that he would have a calculated reason for saying what he did.

The medical professional has no more info than you have, and he's a poster on the web, just like you.

Other than the information gleaned from his medical training, you mean? Look, I'm not claiming triforcharity's word is gospel, and neither is he. But he gave a very even-handed assessment and clearly laid out his reasoning for that assessment. To dismiss it out of hand is contrary to the spirit of honest discourse.

There's a report with the truth on it. None of us have seen it. All we have are opinions of what info we are given.

You're right. But it is disingenuous to pretend all opinions are equally invalid and therefore summarily dismiss any opinion you happen to not like.

Take it easy.

I'm easy like Sunday morning.