The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

[dafydd]

Perhaps. Zoom in and you may see fishermen's nets hanging out to dry, somewhere near the shore, and DOC will claim it to be a fulfilment of Biblical prophecy.

Finding fisherman's nets on the seashore? Now what are the odds against that?

 

[Akhenaten]

No, Tyre has yet to be turned into a piscatorial theme pub.

Perhaps. Zoom in and you may see fishermen's nets hanging out to dry, somewhere near the shore, and DOC will claim it to be a fulfilment of Biblical prophecy.

Good points both. It might serve well to remind DOC that he needs to reconcile the picture on the previous page with this:

Ezekiel 26

⁴And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

⁵It shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.​

But only after he's answered this, of course:

We could, if Doc would just answer our questions. I'll try again. Doc, would you agree that the prophecy about uncircumcised men entering Jerusalem has failed? If it has not failed, when do you expect a ban on uncut willies to be enforced?

 

[pakeha]

...Also Islam spread originally by the sword; and Buddhism is based in a philosophy, it is not dependent on a singular historical event as Christianity is.

...and whose actions even play a big part in our upcoming election.

Could you explain these comments of yours in the context of bibical prophecy, DOC?

 

[X]

If God exists miracles are possible. Something had to turn a bunch of scared apostles into bold evangelists that shook up the world, greatly contributed to the extinction of the Greek and Roman gods, and whose actions even play a big part in our upcoming election.

Perhaps, but you still haven't demonstrated that any prophecies were fulfilled.

 

[Akhenaten]

...Also Islam spread originally by the sword; and Buddhism is based in a philosophy, it is not dependent on a singular historical event as Christianity is.

...and whose actions even play a big part in our upcoming election.

... Christianity grew peacefully during its first 300 years in the brutal Roman Empire ...

Could you explain these comments of yours in the context of bibical prophecy, DOC?

Aren't those things the fulfillment of prophecies that Jesus himself made when he said:

Matthew 10:34

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.​

Oh, wait . . .

 

[tsig]

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

- Arnaud Amalric, Abbot of Cîteaux and Papal Legate​

​

Good question, DOC.





If I was a proto-Christian doing my thing in an empire that I thought would string me up, nail me to a tree, feed me to some lions or light me up like a candle I'd be being pretty peaceful about it too, although the fact is it wasn't the religious pursuits of the Christians that got them in trouble so much as their seditious meddling and all-round unwillingness to play by the rules.

Just like today, in other words.

Once the ball got rolling, however, it was a bit of a different story though, wasn't it? Face it DOC, the Romans were extremely tolerant when it came to the religions of those they conquered and in many cases they adopted those religions as their own.

Christianity, on the other hand, has never learned to play nice with the other kids. And never will.

Roman legionaries had the cross on their shields, I think they carried swords.

ETA: Well Jesus did say that those who don't have a sword should buy one, maybe this is a fulfilled prophesy.

 

[Resume]

Did DOC go off on another 10 day sabbatical/retreat?

 

[TimCallahan]

Going once more to DOC's link, here are prophecies 11 through 19 of the 60:

11. He pre-existed creation- Mic 5:21, Pet 1:20

I'm assuming this is a typo, since the last verse in Micah 5 is verse 15. Micah 5:2 says of the Messiah that, ". . . his origin is from old, from ancient days." The only real assertion that Jesus pre-existed creation is in the opening of the Gospel of John. In any case, finding fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies in the New Testament is hardly stunning, since the authors of the gospels used and abused the Hebrew scriptures to find anything they could claim to be prophetic. Further, there's no basis to believe that anything extraordinary about Jesus, particularly his miracles, are anything but fiction. Consider the walking dead in Matthew's account of the Passion. Since there's no corroborating evidence of this incident - even among the other gospels - it is most likely Matthew's invention.

12. He shall be called Lord- Ps 110:1, Acts 2:36

This is hardly a prophecy, that his followers hailed him as "Lord."

13. Called Immanuel (God with us)- Isa 7:14,
Mt 1:22-23

I've already explained this one in my previous post on the subject of these 60 prophecies. The Immanuel prophecy was meant to be fulfilled during the time of the Assyrian Empire. In any case, this is redundant and shouldn't be accorded the status of yet another prophecy.

14. Prophet- Deut 18:18-19, Acts 3:18-25

Gee! The messiah would be a prophet! How astounding! Of course, what Jesus prophesied, the end of the world in his generation didn't take place.

15. Priest- Ps 110:4, Heb 5:5-6

Wow! Here's another one! He'd be a priest - although Jesus in fact was not a priest.

16. Judge- Isa 33:22, Jn 5:22-23
17. King- Ps 2:6, Jn 18:33-37

Ditto for these two. His followers, writing in the New Testament called him judge and king.

18. Anointed by the Spirit- Isa 11:2, Mt 3:16-17

Isaiah 11:2 says that, "the Spirit of the LORD will rest upon him." Matthew 3:16, 17 are simply Matthew's account of the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptist. Jesus rises out of the water and see the Holy Spirit descending on him like a dove. The verses also say the heavens were opened and a voice from heaven says, "This is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased." Again, there's no corroborating evidence, even among the other gospels. For example, Mark has the voice from heaven say, "You are my beloved son . . . " making the whole thing a subjective epiphany.

19. His zeal for God- Ps 69:9, Jn 2:15-17

The Gospel of John simply refers back to Ps. 69:9 to make Jesus "fulfill" what isn't even a prophecy in the Old Testament. By the way, this is from John's version of the cleansing of the Temple, which the Synoptic Gospels place at the end of Jesus' ministry. John places it at the beginning. Thus, the whole incident is suspect.

Again, as with the first ten, prophecies 11 through 19 are without substance. They are a series of unverifiable claims made in the New Testament that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament.

 

[joobz]

To help us get back to the OP, I shall post an updated list of where we stand regarding the arguments made.

DOC has successfully demonstrated a fulfilled biblical prophecy: 1
DOC

DOC has failed to demonstrate that biblical prophecies have been fullfilled. 43
Joobz
Foster Zygote
jond
abaddon
mashuna
zooterkin
Mojo
Lucian
Amazer
Helen
Filippo Lippi
Hokulele
RoboTimbo
FastEddieB
joseph8th
kmortis
x
RobDegraves
Elizabeth I
Lukraak_Sisser
Mudcat
ddt
Mister Agenda* Whose opinion DOC labeled as Unbiased
catsmate
tsig
Leumas
Brainache
Welshdean
Rincewind
Multivac
pakeha
dafydd
TimCallahan
Wildy
Lrrr
Cantab
Sezme
AdMan
Alice Shortcake
Sun Countess
Agatha
Akhenaten/Aberhaten
lowpro

Doc has successfullly demonstrated that the OT is largely made up of incomprehensible gibberish: 16
Lucian
Helen
kmortis
ddt
Leumas
Mudcat
Welshdean
Rincewind
Multivac
Brainache
pakeha
Cantab
Sezme
Nay_sayer
Akhenaten
lowpro

Do you believe any of these[prophecies in a google list] came true?
No:23
zooterkin
joobz
kerikiwi
pakeha
Mojo
dafydd
Lucian
ddt
welshdean
Agatha
Elizabeth I
Craig B
catsmate1
Helen
carlitos
abaddon
Robotimbo
Mudcat
Welshdean
Lrrr
Rincewind
Akhenaten
Lowpro

So you believe these[prophecies in a google list] came true?
Yes:0

 

[pakeha]

Going once more to DOC's link, here are prophecies 11 through 19 of the 60:...

I suspect this 60 prophecy list is simply going to turn out to be one of those memes that get copy/pasted without ever being understood or verified.

 

[kerikiwi]

I suspect this 60 prophecy list is simply going to turn out to be one of those memes that get copy/pasted without ever being understood or verified.

I suspect your prophecy is going to be the closest thing to a fulfilled biblical prophecy we are ever going to see.
And my prophecy about your prophecy will be a close runner up...

 

[TimCallahan]

Going once more to DOC's link, here are prophecies 20 through 27, concerning the ministry of Jesus:

Concerning His ministry:
Prophesied---Fulfilled
20. Preceded by a messenger- Isa 40:3,
Mt 3:1-3

Matthew 3:1 - 3 as Matthew often does, claims something happened, in this case, John the Baptist preaching, then claims it to be the fulfillment of a prophecy, in this case Isa. 20:3.

21. To begin in Galilee- Isa 9:1-2, Mt 4:12-17
The same is true of this prophecy.

22. Ministry of Miracles- Isa 35:5-6,
Mt 9:35;11:4
Again, Isaiah predicts it. Matthew claims it happened, Again, there is no outside corrroboration of the miracles sopposedly wrought by Jesus.

23. Teacher of parables- Ps 78:1-4,
Mt 13:34-35

Again, it's the same old claim (Mt. 13: 34, 35):

Al this Jesus said to the crowds in parables; indeed he said nothing to them without a parable. Thuis was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet: z" I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter what has been hidden since the foundation of the world." And the "prophecy" isn't really that; it's a psalm.

24. He was to enter the temple- Mal 3:1,
Mt 21:10-12
Wow, Jesus entered the temple, something any messianic pretender would naturally do.

25. Enter Jerusalem on donkey-
Zech 9:9, Mt 21:1-7

This, once again, is Matthew trying desperately to make jesus fulfill a prophecy (Zech. 9:9). In this instance, he goes to absurd lengths to get the prophecy right and only succeeds in getting it wrong. Zechariah 9:9 says:

Rojoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout aloud, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Lo, your king comes to you;
triumphant an victorious is he,
humble and riding on an ass,
on a colt, the foal of an ass.

Here Zechariah uses a west Semitic poetic convention twice. The convention is to repeat the name of a personage or even a beast with slight variation. Since Zion is the temple mount in Jerusalem, the daughter of Zion and the daughter of Jerusalem are the same woman. Likewise, the ass and the colt, te foal of an ass are the same beast.

Matthew says that by Jesus telling his discipled to bring the ass and its foal, he was fulfilling the words of Zechariah, and even quotes Zech. 9:9. However, writing in Greek, centuries after the time of Zechariah, he misses the Semitic poetic convention. The results are rather hilarious (Mt. 21:6, 7, emphasis added):

The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them; they brought the ass and the colt, and put their garments on them, and he sat thereon.

So, to "fulfill" the prophecy to the letter, Matthew has Jesus riding into Jerusalem on two animals at the same time, like a circus stunt rider. Christian apologists often try to say that he only rode on the colt, which followed its mother, who was being led by one ofthe disciples. However, this, of course, is not what the verse says. It says he sat on both beasts at the same time.

26. Stone of stumbling to Jews- Isa 28:16;
Ps 118:22 1 Pet 2:6-8

Again, this is the same old trick of writing something in the New Testament to deliberately reflect =something in the Jewish scriptures, then to claim it's a prophecy fulfilled.

27. Light to Gentiles- Isa 49:6, Acts 13:46-48. Ditto for this one.

 

[Craig B]

TimCallahan

Great minds, as they say. See #2152.

 

[TimCallahan]

TimCallahan

Great minds, as they say. See #2152.

Sorry I missed that one, Craig. Oh well, even though it's been said twice, I doubt we'll get one response from DOC.

 

[DOC]

We could, if Doc would just answer our questions. I'll try again. Doc, would you agree that the prophecy about uncircumcised men entering Jerusalem has failed? If it has not failed, when do you expect a ban on uncut willies to be enforced?

I've already answered this question. The verse could be interpreted as conditional since God gave two commands in the verse; what if the Jews don't obey those commands. Also he could have easily been referring to invading heathen armies (since he was talking about invasions in the previous chapter) and the prophecy could have been intended for their lifetimes. If I say a Yankee fan will never enter this house. I obviously mean during my lifetime, but I don't actually say that, it's implied.

Also it's not practical to believe that he also meant such people as traders and caravans who might pass through the large city for economic reasons.

 

[dafydd]

I've already answered this question. The verse could be interpreted as conditional since God gave two commands in the verse; what if the Jews don't obey those commands. Also he could have easily been referring to invading heathen armies (since he was talking about invasions earlier) and the prophecy could have been intended for their lifetimes. If I say a Yankee fan will never enter this house. I obviously mean during my lifetime, but I don't actually say that, it's implied.

So the holy word of god is very wishy washy. Was your god incapable of expressing himself clearly? As for the nonsense about the Yankees, whose lifetime does the prophecy apply to? The prophecy has failed, live with it.

 

[DOC]

To help us get back to the OP, I shall post an updated list of where we stand regarding the arguments made.

DOC has successfully demonstrated a fulfilled biblical prophecy: 1
DOC

DOC has failed to demonstrate that biblical prophecies have been fullfilled. 43
Joobz
Foster Zygote
jond
abaddon
mashuna
zooterkin
Mojo
Lucian
Amazer
Helen
Filippo Lippi
Hokulele
RoboTimbo
FastEddieB
joseph8th
kmortis
x
RobDegraves
Elizabeth I
Lukraak_Sisser
Mudcat
ddt
Mister Agenda* Whose opinion DOC labeled as Unbiased
catsmate
tsig
Leumas
Brainache
Welshdean
Rincewind
Multivac
pakeha
dafydd
TimCallahan
Wildy
Lrrr
Cantab
Sezme
AdMan
Alice Shortcake
Sun Countess
Agatha
Akhenaten/Aberhaten
lowpro

Doc has successfullly demonstrated that the OT is largely made up of incomprehensible gibberish: 16
Lucian
Helen
kmortis
ddt
Leumas
Mudcat
Welshdean
Rincewind
Multivac
Brainache
pakeha
Cantab
Sezme
Nay_sayer
Akhenaten
lowpro

Do you believe any of these[prophecies in a google list] came true?
No:23
zooterkin
joobz
kerikiwi
pakeha
Mojo
dafydd
Lucian
ddt
welshdean
Agatha
Elizabeth I
Craig B
catsmate1
Helen
carlitos
abaddon
Robotimbo
Mudcat
Welshdean
Lrrr
Rincewind
Akhenaten
Lowpro

So you believe these[prophecies in a google list] came true?
Yes:0

Joobz how come you are allowed to continuously (possibly 15 to 20 times) give the opinions of people, but I'm no longer allowed to give the opposite opinion (concerning prophecy) of attorney Jay Sekulow. That's not fair.

Plus the fact it is a bandwagon fallacy with no new relevant information given (other then some anonymous person's opinion).

Just let the posts speak for themselves.

Also this is a skeptic website. You parading your poll is like me parading a poll taken at a Tea party convention (where there was a debate about Obama's performance) that states 98% of those that heard the debate think Obama is not doing a good job.

 

[Akhenaten]

We could, if Doc would just answer our questions. I'll try again. Doc, would you agree that the prophecy about uncircumcised men entering Jerusalem has failed? If it has not failed, when do you expect a ban on uncut willies to be enforced?

I've already answered this question.

No you haven't. You made up some special pleading nonsense and typed it in the space underneath the question.

Not the same thing as answering at all, and that's why you'll find that the question will be repeated until you do actually answer.

The verse could be interpreted as conditional since God gave two commands in the verse; what if the Jews don't obey those commands.

Are you able to point out the word 'if' in the verse?

If the answer is 'no' then your argument collapses.

Also he could have easily been referring to invading heathen armies (since he was talking about invasions in the previous chapter) and the prophecy could have been intended for their lifetimes.

None of this is even hinted at in the verse in question.

This 'could have' garbage is nothing more than you making up stuff. It's not now and never has been part of the prophecy.

If I say a Yankee fan will never enter this house. I obviously mean during my lifetime, but I don't actually say that, it's implied.

Absolute rubbish.

The meaning you are claiming is not at all implicit in the words you have used, much less is it obvious.

This prophecy, like your desperate, straw-clutching argument is an utter failure.

 

[dafydd]

Joobz how come you are allowed to continuously give the opinions of people but I'm no longer allowed to give the opposite opinion of attorney Jay Sekulow in here. That's not fair.

The poll is for members of this site. It reflects how well you are doing in your attempt to convince us that there are fulfilled bible prophecies. You have yet to show us a prophecy that has panned out. Anyway, one vote for your side wouldn't make much difference.

 

[dafydd]

No you haven't. You made up some special pleading nonsense and typed it in the space underneath the question.

Not the same thing as answering at all, and that's why you'll find that the question will be repeated until you do actually answer.

Exactly. Responding and answering are not the same thing,Doc.