General Holocaust Denial Discussion Part II

[Dogzilla]

No, in both cases you will be asked why you disregard all of the other types of evidence which exists, to ask for a specific pose which may or may not.

And LOL -- it is an effective rebuttal to those who claim that the Jews deserved it, or that they must have broken some law to be treated they the Germans did.

So tell us, DZ, straight up: did the Jews deserve what the Germans did to them. That's a "yes" or "no" question. Was their treatment deserved? Even little Bronislaw to my left?

Give me a minute to cue up your tap dancing music -- or shall we just cue up "Good Night, Ladies" right away?

We need to be specific. 'Did the Jews deserve what you believe the Germans did to them?' is one question. It is irrelevant however because what you believe happened didn't. 'Did the Jews deserve what the Germans did to them?' as in did they deserve to be treated the way they really were, I would say no. They did not.

 

[TSR]

We need to be specific. 'Did the Jews deserve what you believe the Germans did to them?' is one question. It is irrelevant however because what you believe happened didn't. 'Did the Jews deserve what the Germans did to them?' as in did they deserve to be treated the way they really were, I would say no. They did not.

1) how were they "really" treated?
2) got any of that, you know, evidence thingy to support your fantasy from 1)?

 

[SnakeTongue]

Thank goodness there is only one category of Holocaust charlatans.

1. Delusional verbose lying agenda driven fabricators.

(Laughing loud)

Really funny reply for the Nick Terry long and absurd categorization of a denier!

Next time replace "lying" with "preaching".

 

[SnakeTongue]

I think you missed two categories:

5) Hardcore conspiracy theorists, who don´t really like Hitler or hate the Jews as such, but who swallow Holocaust denial anyway because, you know, conspiracy...

6) Ignorant people who have never even heard of, much less seen for themselves, the evidence for the Holocaust, and thus believe the deniers when they hear that the Holocaust is a Jewish/Western/whatever hoax. You won´t find those on the internet in any numbers, but I´d be willing to wager that in countries with less thorough and unbiased historical education, less widespread internet access etc the bulk of those who don´t believe the Holocaust happened are these, especially among the less educated rural population.

One more expert on the "deniers"...

(Laughing loud)

 

[SnakeTongue]

There's too much idiocy here even for a retired billionaire genius to combat, so I'll just focus on this revolting excerpt:
What on Earth made you mention the diary of Anne Frank as a reference here? Are you that insolent? Are you that dumb?

That was not for you, was?

You lost the last call for sarcasm...

 

[TSR]

That was not for you, was?

There's this thing we big kids call a "public forum" which means anyone can comment on anything anyone else posts.

Since you brought it up in response to me, how about you address the post where I gave you the answer?

Hint: It's the second one after the one to which you just responded.

 

[SnakeTongue]

And the answer is: as many as it took. Which is not very many when they looked similar to this:

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=739&pictureid=5851[/qimg]

That is a picture after which bombing?

Keeping in mind that the pyre continues off frame to the right, how many people would you say a stacked up there?

I guess no more than 100 human bodies in the whole picture.

That would be:

3100 / 100 = 31

31 open air pyres without any interruption per day to burn the leftover human bodies of 6000 forced to die into a gas chamber.

That is indeed not really practicable.

Just try to figure out the process of dead human body disposal after the gassing. The lift for the upper floor is useless. The dead human bodies can only be carried out one by one to open air. In the open air the human bodies are organized to create 31 pyres.

Let's imagine in a fictional day that by 6pm all 5 crematoriums are full. There are already 10 pyres burning, therefore still 2100 dead human bodies need to be gathered in pyres. If work is left for the another day, the dead human bodies will start to accumulate. Dead human bodies after few hours start to stink. That could cause a critical situation. People arriving every day for the gassing would noticed that.

So 21 pyres are made until 6am of the next day. To complete the whole job would be necessary to sort out 1.75 pyres of dead human bodies per hour before the next shipment of victims arrive.

Someone will smell barbecue in the breakfast...

The rest of you, *hush* -- I'm giving ST some rope.

Why *would* anyone even try to use The Diary of a Young Girl as evidence for this? As has been pointed out The Diary ends before she is sent off to the camps (the Nazis certainly had no problems identifying her and her family as untermenschen).

Now that you've brought her up, though: any ideas on what she had done to deserve the treatment she got at the hands of the Nazis?

No.

Do you know what happened with Henio?

 

[Clayton Moore]

you still haven't read the section of that chapter, have you?

I guess what you were factualizing with

On page 498 In table 8.31 I see 789,000 corpses and a total weight of 14,951,550. I see a number 18.95. It seems that the average corpse weight is 18.95 as

18.95 X 789,000 = 14,951,550


789,000 42lb. corpses


isn't as coherent as it seemed under the midnight oil.


Please explain your rational for typifying a corpse weight of 18.95kg, 42lbs.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

It is there any document published in the Internet which I could see to have an idea of how much money was offered to people denounce the Jews?

Yes, there are several. Where have you looked for them? Where would you expect to find such information?

Is it true then that DDT's comment was the first time you became aware of this aspect of persecution in nazi occupied territories? Have you really never encountered this information before?

 

[FluffyPersian]

That clue was interesting.
The orthodox Judaism of 1933 to 1945 in Europe already recognized the distinction between Ashkenazis and Sephardi Jews?

You're kidding, right?

 

[Nick Terry]

I guess what you were factualizing with

On page 498 In table 8.31 I see 789,000 corpses and a total weight of 14,951,550. I see a number 18.95. It seems that the average corpse weight is 18.95 as

18.95 X 789,000 = 14,951,550


789,000 42lb. corpses


isn't as coherent as it seemed under the midnight oil.


Please explain your rational for typifying a corpse weight of 18.95kg, 42lbs.

This is explained from page 458 onwards.

 

[TSR]

That is a picture after which bombing?

Who says that it was after any bombing?

I guess no more than 100 human bodies in the whole picture.

Then no wonder you try to deny a history you don't even know.

That would be:

3100 / 100 = 31

31 open air pyres without any interruption per day to burn the leftover human bodies of 6000 forced to die into a gas chamber.

Setting aside that your calculations are off, how many days do you believe the gas chambers were run to capacity, and did you think there was some rule that said they had to dispose of every body on the day its owner died?

No.

But she must have done *something* right?

And why *did* you bring her up?

Do you know what happened with Henio?

If you mean Henio Zytomirski, then yes I do -- I had him as my avatar for a time.

What had *he* done to deserve what the Nazis did to him? How about the other ca. 29k residents of Lublin Ghetto? What about those already buried there?

 

[Clayton Moore]

You're kidding, right?

The Zionists not only lied about the Holocaust they lied about their right to Israel.
Ashkenazis FYI
http://iamthewitness.com/doc/Ashken...he.Ancient.Israelites.htm#1980JewishAlmanacp3

The Jewish Encyclopedia:

"Khazars, a non-Semitic, Asiatic, Mongolian tribal nation who emigrated into Eastern Europe about the first century, who were converted as an entire nation to Judaism in the seventh century by the expanding Russian nation which absorbed the entire Khazar population, and who account for the presence in Eastern Europe of the great numbers of Yiddish-speaking Jews in Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Galatia, Besserabia and Rumania."

Encyclopedia Judaica
The Encyclopedia Judaica (1972):

"Khazars, a national group of general Turkic type, independent and sovereign in Eastern Europe between the seventh and tenth centuries C.E. During part of this time the leading Khazars professed Judaism... In spite of the negligible information of an archaeological nature, the presence of Jewish groups and the impact of Jewish ideas in Eastern Europe are considerable during the Middle Ages. Groups have been mentioned as migrating to Central Europe from the East often have been referred to as Khazars, thus making it impossible to overlook the possibility that they originated from within the former Khazar Empire."

The Jewish Encyclopedia
The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia:

"The primary meaning of Ashkenaz and Ashkenazim in Hebrew is Germany and Germans. This may be due to the fact that the home of the ancient ancestors of the Germans is Media, which is the Biblical Ashkenaz... Krauss is of the opinion that in the early medieval ages the Khazars were sometimes referred to as Ashkenazim... About 92 percent of all Jews or approximately 14,500,000 are Ashkenazim.

 

[Clayton Moore]

This is explained from page 458 onwards.

Too bad. I'm not interested in wallowing in tripe about burning 789,000 42lb. corpses.

 

[Nick Terry]

Not indeed. Answer posts in JREF forum take me to the edge of my foreign language skill.

I answered your last reply to me 12 hours ago. Now I am back you after non-stop 12 hours.

My brain is not working in full mode...

Do not expect a good english.

I don't think anyone is especially bothered if you don't write absolutely grammatically. I do think it is a problem when you cannot understand what is being written.

In countries under the domain of the Third Reich.

No.

No.

So all in all your 'Gypsy' gambit was a waste of time. Look, why don't you START with the Wikipedia page on these sorts of things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porajmos

Wikipedia isn't perfect, but it does convey a lot of information which can be considered pretty basic. In this particular case, we find that the Wiki page says early on:

The developments of racial pseudo-science and modernization resulted in anti-Romani state interventions, carried out by both the German Empire and Weimar Republic. In 1899, the Information Services on Gypsies by the Security Police was created in the Imperial Police Headquarters in Munich. Its purpose was to keep records (identification cards, fingerprints, photographs, etc.) and continuous surveillance on the Roma community

So right away you are told by this very easily located source (took me one google search and two clicks) how Gypsies could be identified under the Third Reich; because they were already under police surveillance in Wilhelmine Germany and the Weimar Republic.

No.

I do not know.

It is there any document published in the Internet which I could see to have an idea of how much money was offered to people denounce the Jews?

I don't know, because unlike you I get most of my information from books and journal articles.

 

[Nick Terry]

Too bad. I'm not interested in wallowing in tripe about burning 789,000 42lb. corpses.

http://decompositionnotes.weebly.com/5-stages-of-post-mortem-decomposition.html

 

[LemmyCaution]

I am showing that your claim of Sonderkommandos being forced to kill they own kin, including children and relatives, is absurd when compared with the primary evidence available.

I've already asked you, show where I made such a claim. If you can't, you are a liar. If you can't and you don't retract your lie, you are a liar whose pants are on fire.

 

[Spui]

Interesting picture.

The fog of the morning produced a background layer in the scene. By a moment I thought the background was artificial.

I see four soldiers. One is holding a PPSh-41 sub machine gun in squat position to cover the soldiers running from left to right. Another soldier on the ground is holding a DT-P, a classic machine gun designed by Degtyarov for infantry units. There are two soldiers with rifles. I guess the rifles are Mosin-Nagant M91/30 models.

No, I cannot find any NKVD officers. I know they were usually smart to always keep behind the advancing units.

So you can't prove that the NKVD forced these men to fight. What proof do you have of other Soviet atrocities?

 

[000063]

No, I am not. I am answering post by post.

Now is your turn to receive my reply.

Here I am.

Yet you have somehow managed not to reply to #600 and #677, and decided to work through your backlog right after Wroclaw asked you to prove your claim in #600, before which you were responding mostly to current questions.

Really?

Show up your calculation to prove your point.

Okay. Are you ever going to respond to post #600 or #677?

...

How many open air pyres are necessary to burn 3900 bodies per day?

Anne Frank diary is not acceptable as reference.

There weren't enough hours in a day to burn the alleged millions of bodies to ash....

I used one million bodies. 1,000,000 dead/3,900 per day(which is your number, not mine)=257 days. So the Nazis, by your numbers, were perfectly able to burn millions of bodies over the course of the war.

Of course, Clayton did not specify over what length of time the alleged bodies were not-burned. And he assumes that all the bodies were burned, which I don't believe is the case.

And the answer is: as many as it took. Which is not very many when they looked similar to this:

Keeping in mind that the pyre continues off frame to the right, how many people would you say a stacked up there?

The rest of you, *hush* -- I'm giving ST some rope.

Why *would* anyone even try to use The Diary of a Young Girl as evidence for this? As has been pointed out The Diary ends before she is sent off to the camps (the Nazis certainly had no problems identifying her and her family as untermenschen).

Now that you've brought her up, though: any ideas on what she had done to deserve the treatment she got at the hands of the Nazis?

I'm not sure if you ever responded to that post either. In fact, that was on the same page as #600.

 

[000063]

Which material?

No.

That was post was for you?

No.

You lost the last call for sarcasm.

Nomuse's point is that the diary cannot be used as evidence of things that happened to Anne in the camps, since she did not write in it after her capture and murder.

Bad for me...

I did not mean you say that.

I am confused to understand how racial hatred was used against a religious group of people. I thought the persecutions were solely based on racial features. But it seems the religion was the main factor to recognize the persecuted....

You do realize the designation of "Jew" is both ethnic and religious? Even if you were non-practicing, there was still a good chance you'd get hauled off.

...Oh, the difficulty to post a simple URL...

And when people do so, you still complain about it. You just keep moving the goalposts so you don't have to accept any source.

...
It is there any document published in the Internet which I could see to have an idea of how much money was offered to people denounce the Jews?

Read a book.