The Incredible odds of fulfilled bible prophecy

X said:
Nay, but I think you might have fulfilled one. A first for this thread!
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As they say in the classics . . .


SoLetItBeWritten2.jpg

So let it be written, so let it be done.​


God should have hired Cecil B. DeMille.
 
DOC said:
That's what Norman Geisler and other inerrant believers say, it is true and accurate. The only reason it seems inaccurate to some people is that either they don't see symbolism, or for example they mistake "different" accounts for "wrong" accounts. For example one person writes of two angels being at the tomb and another writer says one. That is a different account but one does not contradict the other. If one would have said there were 2 angels at the tomb and the other would have said there is "only" one angel then that would have been a contradiction, but they didn't say "only" one. It's like if I say get me a pencil, "there is one in that drawer". If the person opens the drawer and there are two pencils, that doesn't mean I was wrong. There is one pencil in the drawer (but there is also two). I would have been wrong however if I would have said there is "only" one pencil in the drawer. . . (snip) . . .
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DOC: There are substantive differences in the following account that go beyond the rationalization in the hilited area. For example:

1) According to Matthew, Joseph and Mary are already living in Bethlehem when Jesus is born. They flee to Egypt to escape the persecution of Herod the Great, come back after he has died, but go to Nazareth to escape the attention of Herod's son Archelaus (however, another of Herd's sons, Antipas, is ruling Galilee). According to Luke, Joseph and Mary are already living in Nazareth and have to trek to Bethlehem for Jesus to be born there. Then they go back to Nazareth. There's no flight to Egypt, no slaughter of the innocents. These two nativity accounts directly contradict each other. You can't rationalize these differences away.

2) According to the Synoptic Gospels, the Last Supper was a Passover meal. According to John, jesus is crucified just before Passover. This is a direct contradiction.

3) According to the Synoptic Gospels, Jesus is too weakened to carry his cross all the way to Golgotha, and Simon of Cyrene is forced to carry it for him. According to John, Jesus carries it all the way. This is a direct contradiction.

4) According to Mark, there are no post-resurrection appearances of the risen Christ, only an empty tomb as evidence. According to Paul, in 1 Corinthians, Jesus first appears to Peter. According to John, He first appears to Mary Magdalene. According to Mark and Matthew, the angel tells the women at the tomb that the disciples are to go to Galilee, where Jesus will meet them. In Matthew, this is indeed where Jesus meets the disciples before ascending to heaven. According to Luke, Jesus expressly tells the disciples not to leave Jerusalem, and he meets them there. These are all direct contradictions. You can't rationalize them away.
 
DOC said:
The bible does not claim to be a science book, the vast majority of it deals with God's relationship with man, and spiritual and ethical matters. The little amount that does deal with science themes like Genesis could have been to satisfy the natural curiosity of the illiterate uneducated people in a manner they could easily understand without confusing them, and distracting them from the more important spiritual matters and ethical matters.
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Like women being unclean and rape and slavery being completely acceptable moral endeavors. And how sometimes, if you want to be right by god, you need to kill, rape, and enslave an entire group of people. Or maybe God will go easy on you and just ask you to sacrifice your own child.

But with that said the Bible does seems to know a lot about science:

Genesis 1:1a - the universe came first

Genesis 1:1b - then the earth

Gen 1:10 - then land and sea

Gen 1:21 - then life in the sea

Gen 1;24-25 - then land animals

Gen 1:27 - lastly humans

Also other biblical writers had other unusual scientific knowledge of such things as evaporation, condensation, a time when there was no precipitation. and that the earth hung suspended in space. Gen 2: 6,7 , Eccl 1:7 , Isa 40:22 , Job 26:7
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And don't forget the stars which were strung up on an invisible firmament, and the moon which gave light at night. When humans were created, DOC, were men and women created at the same time or separately? And why couldn't an ancient people understand that there were other planets in the universe, or that the sun was the centre of their solar system? I learned those things when I was a child, and I didn't need any newfangled modern scientist thinking to understand them.

Now back to prophecy.
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Ah, yes, we can all agree that the bible is non-moral and non-science-y, so can we finally all agree that it isn't very prophetic either? It truly fails on all fronts, DOC.

TimCallahan said:
These are all direct contradictions. You can't rationalize them away.
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I'll bet he's willing to try though. :)
 
DOC said:
That's what Norman Geisler and other inerrant believers say, it is true and accurate. The only reason it seems inaccurate to some people is that either they don't see symbolism, or for example they mistake "different" accounts for "wrong" accounts. For example one person writes of two angels being at the tomb and another writer says one. That is a different account but one does not contradict the other. If one would have said there were 2 angels at the tomb and the other would have said there is "only" one angel then that would have been a contradiction, but they didn't say "only" one. It's like if I say get me a pencil, "there is one in that drawer". If the person opens the drawer and there are two pencils, that doesn't mean I was wrong. There is one pencil in the drawer (but there is also two). I would have been wrong however if I would have said there is "only" one pencil in the drawer.
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And that, ladies and germs, is why they call it "apologetics."

DOC,
I would strongly urge you to never use this type of reasoning in real life. You will only end up in trouble.

  • But your honor, my testimony isn't wrong it's only "different."
  • But Mr. Tax Man, I did earn $10,000, I just earned some more thousands too.
  • But officer, I was driving one way, just not that "different" way.
  • But honey, I do love, honor and cherish you. I never said "just" you.
 
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Garrette said:
If the Bible prophesies that none of its prophecies will come true, is it then fulfilled?
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Perhaps. . .I'll need to check that one with Russell.

If a prophesy fails in the wood, and there's no-one there to see it, will DOC still claim it's been fulfilled?
 
DOC said:
That's what Norman Geisler and other inerrant believers say, it is true and accurate. The only reason it seems inaccurate to some people is that either they don't see symbolism, or for example they mistake "different" accounts for "wrong" accounts. For example one person writes of two angels being at the tomb and another writer says one. That is a different account but one does not contradict the other. If one would have said there were 2 angels at the tomb and the other would have said there is "only" one angel then that would have been a contradiction, but they didn't say "only" one. It's like if I say get me a pencil, "there is one in that drawer". If the person opens the drawer and there are two pencils, that doesn't mean I was wrong. There is one pencil in the drawer (but there is also two). I would have been wrong however if I would have said there is "only" one pencil in the drawer.
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Yep, I'm with DOC on this one. I believe in the 'True God'.





Not that one, the other one.
 
joobz said:
And yet, you have failed to show that even 1 biblical prophecy was fulfilled.
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So why did well known Jewish attorney Jay Sekulow (who has argued several cases before the Supreme Court) convert to Christianity after reading and studying Isaiah chapter 53, and even seeking an explanation from a rabbi.

Joobz you have the right to your opinion, just as the author of the below website (who talks of 60 fullfilled prophecies) has the right to his.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....hread/daa80613c57d4004/6961bccbd43f70aa?pli=1

The fact that you keep saying I have not given 1 fulfilled prophecy gives me the right to keep saying the above. In the future to be honest you should say "in my opinion" you have not given 1 fulfilled prophecy.
 
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DOC said:
So why did well known Jewish attorney Jay Sekulow (who has argued several cases before the Supreme Court) convert to Christianity after reading and studying Isaiah chapter 53, and even seeking an explanation from a rabbi.

Joobz you have the right to your opinion, just as the author of the below website (who talks of 60 fullfilled prophecies) has the right to his.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....hread/daa80613c57d4004/6961bccbd43f70aa?pli=1

The fact that you keep saying I have not given 1 fulfilled gives me the right to keep saying the above. In the future to be honest you should say "in my opinion" you have not given 1 fulfilled prophecy.
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One would tend to think that a fulfilled prophecy would be more fact that opinion DOC... If you can't use facts to explain a prophecy and have to wriggle around to it, don't you think that defies what a prophecy is supposed to be?
 
Helen said:
DOC, dear, I earn my living as a translator, and while it is a job that demands almost superhuman skills and intelligence, and an overall fantasticalitude far beyond most humans, it can actually be done....
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Do you translate the Hebrew language, and why are there so many translations of the Bible if it can be done?

At this link you can see Gateway lists 30 different translations of the Bible into the English Language. (hit the down arrow next to "page options" to see them)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1&version=NIV
 
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DOC said:
For example one person writes of two angels being at the tomb and another writer says one. That is a different account but one does not contradict the other. If one would have said there were 2 angels at the tomb and the other would have said there is "only" one angel then that would have been a contradiction, but they didn't say "only" one.
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Next, DOC will tell the story of the first moon landing, and how one man walked on the moon.
 
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