Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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So lets see what a simple search for causal links provides:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(99)01239-8/fulltext
Our analyses do not support a causal association between MMR vaccine and autism. If such an association occurs, it is so rare that it could not be identified in this large regional sample.
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http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa021134

This study provides strong evidence against the hypothesis that MMR vaccination causes autism.
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http://www.bmj.com/content/324/7334/393.short

These findings provide no support for an MMR associated “new variant” form of autism with developmental regression and bowel problems, and further evidence against involvement of MMR vaccine in the initiation of autism
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http://www.bmj.com/content/322/7284/460.short
Because the incidence of autism among 2 to 5 year olds increased markedly among boys born in each year separately from 1988 to 1993 while MMR vaccine coverage was over 95% for successive annual birth cohorts, the data provide evidence that no correlation exists between the prevalence of MMR vaccination and the rapid increase in the risk of autism over time. The explanation for the marked increase in risk of the diagnosis of autism in the past decade remains uncertain.
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Seems pretty conclusive to me...
 
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Yes. Because the BMJ and Lancet are provincial little rags... Why would a US based study be of any more or less value? Are you concerned the MMR jab only causes autism in America? How does that reflect on your idea of a world wide pandemic?

What is wrong with the studies performed in univerisities elsewhere? What issue do you have with the coredata?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Department of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, Jagiellonian University, Collegium Medicum, Krakow, Poland.

I'm sure that the results were translated from Polish.
Who knows what was lost in the translation?

Besides, why aren't you citing a US study?
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Is there a translation issue from the Lancet, or BMJ? What reason can you give for discounting studies not created in the USA? (One assumes you don't denounce these modern computer thingies, penacilin, DNA, or the existance of DNA on the same grounds?)
 
Redtail said:
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(00)04531-1/fulltext

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.94.11.1926
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http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(00)04531-1/fulltext

US expert group rejects link between MMR and autism
Haroon Ashraf
The US Institute of Medicine (IOM) has rejected claims of a causal relation between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism in a review of current evidence published on April 23. However the 15 independent scientific experts that comprised the IOM's Immunisation Safety Review Committee warned that they could not rule out that MMR may contribute to autistic spectrum disorders (ASD) because epidemiological evidence lacked the precision to assess rare occurrences of a response to M
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http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...nticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage=

Journal for Specialists in Pediatric Nursing?


http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.94.11.1926

A Global Perspective on Vaccine Safety and Public Health: The Global Advisory Committee on Vaccine Safety
Peter I. Folb, MD, FRCP, Ewa Bernatowska, MD, PhD, Robert Chen, MD, MA, John Clemens, MD, Alex N. O. Dodoo, PhD, MSc, MPSGH, MRPharmS, BPharm, Susan S. Ellenberg, PhD, C. Patrick Farrington, PhD, T. Jacob John, PhD, DCH, MBBS, MRCP, Paul-Henri Lambert, MD, Noni E. MacDonald, MD, MSc, BSc, Elizabeth Miller, FRCPath, MB, David Salisbury, CB, FRCP, FFPHM, Heinz-J. Schmitt, MD, Claire-Anne Siegrist, MD, and Omala Wimalaratne, MD, MBBS

Peter I. Folb is with the Medical Research Council, Cape Town, South Africa. Ewa Bernatowska is with the Department of Immunology, Children’s Memorial Health Institute, Warsaw, Poland. Robert Chen is with the Immunization Safety Branch, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, Ga. John Clemens is with the International Vaccine Institute, Seoul, Korea. Alex N.O. Dodoo is with the Centre for Tropical Clinical Pharmacology and Therapeutics, University of Ghana Medical School, Accra. Susan Ellenberg is with the Office of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, Food and Drug Administration, Rockville, Maryland. Patrick Farrington is with the Department of Statistics, Open University, Milton Keynes, England. T. Jacob John is with the Kerala State Institute of Virology and Infectious Diseases, Vellore, India. Paul-Henri Lambert and Claire-Anne Siegrist are with the World Health Organization Collaborating Centre for Neonatal Vaccinology, Centre Médical Universitaire, Geneva, Switzerland. Noni E. MacDonald is with the Department of Paediatrics, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada. Elizabeth Miller is with the Immunisation Department, Health Protection Agency, London, England. David
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Still no US study.
 
Clayton Moore said:
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(00)04531-1/fulltext

...



Still no US study.
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Hmm, are you sure... That was published in a British magazine, but let's look at the first line again:
The US Institute of Medicine (IOM) has rejected claims of a causal relation between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and autism in a review of current evidence published on April 23
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Sounds like a meta-study to me. By a US group.

And you have yet to explain exactly what relevence the study originating in the US would have. What effect does it have on the data? Given that you claim the ONLY worldwide constant for the world wide endemic is vaccination?

Does the vaccine have a different effect in the US?
 
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Causal+relation


(in research) a relationship between one phenomenon or event (A) and another (B) in which A precedes and causes B. The direction of influence and the nature of the effect are predictable and reproducible and may be empirically observed. Causality is difficult to prove. Some social scientists contend that it is impossible to prove a causal relationship.
Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.
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Looks like the medical community is playing word games.
 
Clayton Moore said:
Department of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, Jagiellonian University, Collegium Medicum, Krakow, Poland.

I'm sure that the results were translated from Polish.
Who knows what was lost in the translation?

Besides, why aren't you citing a US study?
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Yes, because Europeans are well known for only speaking one language and are too stupid to realise that the the language of science is now English.

This is why the study is from Poland:

Poland’s heterogeneous population (ie, vaccinated with MMR,
vaccinated against measles only, nonvaccinated) serves as a
unique sample group for studying the debated association of
these vaccines with autism in children.
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Do you know why this is the case?

Because it is unethical to experiment on children when we know immunisation works, so we are unable to with-hold medical treatments that work.
 
Last I heard of Wakefield was he was at some place called the Thoughtful House in Austin Teaxs and has since resigned from there or been sacked by them as well.
 
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Dcdrac said:
Last I heard of Wakefield was he was at some place called the Thoughtful House in Austin Teaxs and has since resigned from there or been sacked by them as well.
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The Crash and Burn of an Autism Guru

But after the General Medical Council found in January 2010 that Wakefield had committed ethical violations — subjecting developmentally disabled children to unnecessary invasive procedures, mishandling funds and failing to disclose conflicts of interest, to name a few — Wakefield resigned from Thoughtful House. The walls of his professional world have continued to close in. He no longer speaks at the popular Autism Research Institute conference, where he has prominently held court in the past. And to that segment of the American audience that may have been unfamiliar with his work until recently, he has been introduced primarily as a villain. When he was interviewed on CNN and invoked “Callous Disregard,” Anderson Cooper cut him off: “But sir, if you’re lying, then your book is also a lie.”


...

As for the accusation that he received financing for the paper from lawyers intending to sue vaccine manufacturers, he insisted that the money was for a separate study. And why did the lawyer behind the litigation essentially say otherwise on tape? “He was confused,” Wakefield explained. His faith in his theory also remains intact, which he made clear when I asked him, in a separate interview, if he still believed M.M.R. caused the autism in the children in the Lancet paper. “Is that a serious question?” he said. “Yes, I do still think M.M.R. was causing it.”

For Wakefield, the attacks have become a kind of affirmation. The more he must defend his research, the more important he seems to consider it — so important that powerful forces have conspired and aligned against him. He said he believes that “they” — public-health officials, pharmaceutical companies — pay bloggers to plant vicious comments about him on the Web.

...

“To our community, Andrew Wakefield is Nelson Mandela and Jesus Christ rolled up into one,” says J. B. Handley, co-founder of Generation Rescue, a group that disputes vaccine safety. “He’s a symbol of how all of us feel.”

...

Wakefield now lives in a high-end Austin neighborhood, a private enclave where most homes, including his, enjoy generous acreage and bucolic views of the hills. “You can almost believe you’re in Tuscany,” he says of the view from his back deck.


...

It seems very unlikely that any study, no matter how carefully conducted, will assure Wakefield of the safety of M.M.R. at this point: numbers can lie, or be manipulated, and even paranoids have enemies. Didn’t they laugh at the researcher who said bacteria caused ulcers? Doesn’t he owe it to the children to continue on?

Before leaving for the airport with Wakefield and his son, I took in the view from the deck. The hills looked lofty, peaceful, a little bit blurred in the distance — you could believe, as Wakefield had promised, you were in Tuscany. With a little effort, you can believe almost anything.
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I like the closing line.
 
Tomtomkent said:
Or that you dont understand technical terminology may have discipline specific meanings.

But what it "looks" like is subjective. Why do you demand US studies? What makes a study performed in the US inherently more valid than those performed in any of the worlds other universities?
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No US studies proves there is much to be hidden.
 
Clayton Moore said:
No US studies proves there is much to be hidden.
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Ah, the old conspiracy theorist standby: A lack of evidence, no matter how narrow and specific the request, must equal a conspiracy. I tell ya, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't for us poor NWO operatives.
 
Tatyana said:
Yes, because Europeans are well known for only speaking one language and are too stupid to realise that the the language of science is now English.

This is why the study is from Poland:



Do you know why this is the case?

Because it is unethical to experiment on children when we know immunisation works, so we are unable to with-hold medical treatments that work.
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Yeah sure. Like a legitimate control group of children who weren't vaccinated couldn't be found.

A US study using patient histories would not endanger anyone.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
Yeah sure. Like a legitimate control group of children who weren't vaccinated couldn't be found.
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Do you even read the words you pretend to respond to?

Poland’s heterogeneous population (ie, vaccinated with MMR,
vaccinated against measles only, nonvaccinated) serves as a
unique sample group for studying the debated association of
these vaccines with autism in children.
Click to expand...
 
Why would a lack of US studies hide anything? From whom? Studies are available from the rest of the world, in peer review journals read globally. I posted articles from the Lancet, one of the foremostmedicaljournals in the world. What is the point of containing US based papers when:
A) the data is available in a magazine most Doctors have access to.
And...
B) there is no reason to assume US based studies will be of any differing quality.

So we can extend the things you comment on yet fail to understand, to include the peer review process.


Why do you cite a lack of American studies when an american Meta Study has been cited in recentposts. Shall we extend the limits of your ignorance to ask if you mean "study" or "clinical patient study"?
 
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