Vaccine/autism CT discussion

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carlitos said:
I recently heard Bill Clinton speak about the autism epidemic (among other subjects). He cited the numbers that were posted here (1 in 84, can't all be explained by diagnostic increase). I'm pleased to say that he didn't veer into anti-vax nonsense.

Clayton Moore, if he were thinking clearly, could explain why one would rule out inherited conditions when analyzing this phenomenon.
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Thousands and thousands and thousands of parents have spoken out that their toddlers displayed autistic symptoms shortly after receiving a MMR vaccination.

Bill Clinton? The guy who didn't know oral sex was sex?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Thousands and thousands and thousands of parents have spoken out that their toddlers displayed autistic symptoms shortly after receiving a MMR vaccination.
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And?

The possibility of the link has been scrutinised over and again. There is no link.

Is the MMR the ONLY thing those kids have in common? No. Are there even more kids who use the MMR jab and dont get autism? Yes. Are there kids with autism who didnt have the MMR jab? Wouldn't you know it, yes.

Do you actually have any evidence to support your assertion, or are you just planning on stamping your foot and saying it must be true because actually looking at viable data is hard work?
 
Thousands and thousands and thousands of parents have spoken out that their toddlers displayed autistic symptoms shortly after mastering toilet training. Clearly, toilet training is the problem. :rolleyes:
 
carlitos said:
Thousands and thousands and thousands of parents have spoken out that their toddlers displayed autistic symptoms shortly after mastering toilet training. Clearly, toilet training is the problem. :rolleyes:
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Or coca cola.
Or chocolate.
Or the sniffles.
Or food poisoning.
Or exposure to plastics.
Or foods grown with fertaliser.
Or insect bites.
Or exhaust emissions.
Or "friendly" bacteria.
Or latent genetics.
Or any number of other common factors that those children would be exposed to before they recieved their jabs.
 
Tomtomkent said:
And?

The possibility of the link has been scrutinised over and again. There is no link.

Is the MMR the ONLY thing those kids have in common? No. Are there even more kids who use the MMR jab and dont get autism? Yes. Are there kids with autism who didnt have the MMR jab? Wouldn't you know it, yes.

Do you actually have any evidence to support your assertion, or are you just planning on stamping your foot and saying it must be true because actually looking at viable data is hard work?
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I've never seen a study that revealed a similar rate of autism in children who did not receive MMR vaccine.
 
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Clayton Moore said:
I've never seen a study that revealed a similar rate of autism in children who did not receive MMR vaccine.
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19952979

Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.

Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study
.
Mrozek-Budzyn D, Kiełtyka A, Majewska R.

Source
Department of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, Jagiellonian University, Collegium Medicum, Krakow, Poland. dorotamrozek@tlen.pl

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
The first objective of the study was to determine whether there is a relationship between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination and autism in children. The second objective was to examine whether the risk of autism differs between use of MMR and the single measles vaccine.

DESIGN:
Case-control study.
STUDY POPULATION:
The 96 cases with childhood or atypical autism, aged 2 to 15, were included into the study group. Controls consisted of 192 children individually matched to cases by year of birth, sex, and general practitioners.

METHODS:
Data on autism diagnosis and vaccination history were from physicians. Data on the other probable autism risk factors were collected from mothers. Logistic conditional regression was used to assess the risk of autism resulting from vaccination. Assessment was made for children vaccinated (1) Before diagnosis of autism, and (2) Before first symptoms of autism onset. Odds ratios were adjusted to mother's age, medication during pregnancy, gestation time, perinatal injury and Apgar score.

RESULTS:
For children vaccinated before diagnosis, autism risk was lower in children vaccinated with MMR than in the nonvaccinated (OR: 0.17, 95% CI: 0.06-0.52) as well as to vaccinated with single measles vaccine (OR: 0.44, 95% CI: 0.22-0.91). The risk for vaccinated versus nonvaccinated (independent of vaccine type) was 0.28 (95% CI: 0.10-0.76). The risk connected with being vaccinated before onset of first symptoms was significantly lower only for MMR versus single vaccine (OR: 0.47, 95% CI: 0.22-0.99).

CONCLUSIONS:
The study provides evidence against the association of autism with either MMR or a single measles vaccine.
 
Clayton Moore said:
CBS This Morning. Autism

Autism Stats. 1 of 88 children. 1 of 54 boys.

Increase 50% due to better diagnosis. 50% unknown.

What a sadistic attack on children by the medical community.

They can't freaking figure out what all these autistic children, worldwide, have in common.

They are pure scum.
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Yes, medicine should work miracles, and instantly!!

It has only been about fifty years, and as we all know, understanding the human brain is CHILD'S PLAY you morons!

http://www.webmd.com/brain/autism/history-of-autism

In the 1940s, researchers in the United States began to use the term "autism" to describe children with emotional or social problems. Leo Kanner, a doctor from Johns Hopkins University, used it to describe the withdrawn behavior of several children he studied. At about the same time, Hans Asperger, a scientist in Germany, identified a similar condition that’s now called Asperger’s syndrome.

Autism and schizophrenia remained linked in many researchers’ minds until the 1960s. It was only then that medical professionals began to have a separate understanding of autism in children.
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The rates are increasing around the WORLD!

Let's look at the US as a microcosm for the world.

As well, there are not the same rates in all countries, and the really low rates in some countries is being attributed to the lack of diagnostic services.





http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/news/2011/researchers-track-down-autism-rates-across-the-globe


This is also a problem in the U.S. Data collected by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows the highest autism prevalence in states with the best autism health and support services, such as Arizona (121 cases per 10,000 people), Missouri (121) and New Jersey (106). In contrast, areas with fewer services have lower rates, such as Alabama (60), Arkansas (69) and Florida (42).
 
Tatyana said:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19952979

Pediatr Infect Dis J. 2010 May;29(5):397-400.

Lack of association between measles-mumps-rubella vaccination and autism in children: a case-control study
.
Mrozek-Budzyn D, Kiełtyka A, Majewska R.

Source
Department of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, Jagiellonian University, Collegium Medicum, Krakow, Poland. dorotamrozek@tlen.pl

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
The first objective of the study was to determine whether there is a relationship between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination and autism in children. The second objective was to examine whether the risk of autism differs between use of MMR and the single measles vaccine.

DESIGN:
Case-control study.
STUDY POPULATION:
The 96 cases with childhood or atypical autism, aged 2 to 15, were included into the study group. Controls consisted of 192 children individually matched to cases by year of birth, sex, and general practitioners.

METHODS:
Data on autism diagnosis and vaccination history were from physicians. Data on the other probable autism risk factors were collected from mothers. Logistic conditional regression was used to assess the risk of autism resulting from vaccination. Assessment was made for children vaccinated (1) Before diagnosis of autism, and (2) Before first symptoms of autism onset. Odds ratios were adjusted to mother's age, medication during pregnancy, gestation time, perinatal injury and Apgar score.

RESULTS:
For children vaccinated before diagnosis, autism risk was lower in children vaccinated with MMR than in the nonvaccinated (OR: 0.17, 95% CI: 0.06-0.52) as well as to vaccinated with single measles vaccine (OR: 0.44, 95% CI: 0.22-0.91). The risk for vaccinated versus nonvaccinated (independent of vaccine type) was 0.28 (95% CI: 0.10-0.76). The risk connected with being vaccinated before onset of first symptoms was significantly lower only for MMR versus single vaccine (OR: 0.47, 95% CI: 0.22-0.99).

CONCLUSIONS:
The study provides evidence against the association of autism with either MMR or a single measles vaccine.
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And the control group of children not vaccinated?
 
Clayton Moore's anti-vaccination threads move in vast circles. He presents the same argument: autism diagnosis has increased, vaccinations have increased, so one must cause the other. When the facts are presented that prove otherwise, he typically then demands to know, if it is not vaccination, then what is causing autism!?! When people tell him what is known (the genetic studies, for example) and explain that lots of other events correlate with the increase in autism diagnosis, Clayton lies low for a while, then repeats the whole process as if the prior cycles never happened.

Before we go for another loop, I would like Clayton to answer my prior question: given vaccination is one of the few events that has been conclusively ruled out as a cause of autism, why do you refuse to move on and support studies to determine the real cause? Do you care more about preventing autism or your pet theory?
 
Clayton Moore said:
And the control group of children not vaccinated?
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I wonder who it meant when it compared the risk in "vaccinated" to "non vaccinated" and found the risk to be lower in those vaccinated by either MMR or single vaccines. Lower than non-vaccinated. As in "people with no vaccine".

Did you even read what you quoted? Or are you just asking to look silly?
 
Tomtomkent said:
I wonder who it meant when it compared the risk in "vaccinated" to "non vaccinated" and found the risk to be lower in those vaccinated by either MMR or single vaccines. Lower than non-vaccinated. As in "people with no vaccine".

Did you even read what you quoted? Or are you just asking to look silly?
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Department of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, Jagiellonian University, Collegium Medicum, Krakow, Poland.

I'm sure that the results were translated from Polish.
Who knows what was lost in the translation?

Besides, why aren't you citing a US study?
 
Clayton Moore said:
Department of Epidemiology and Preventive Medicine, Jagiellonian University, Collegium Medicum, Krakow, Poland.

I'm sure that the results were translated from Polish.
Who knows what was lost in the translation?

Besides, why aren't you citing a US study?
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You said the epidemic was world wide, why should a US study be considered any more accurate?

What is there to get lost in translation? Groups with numbers.
 
carlitos said:
:bwall

trollin trollin trollin, keep them doggies trollin...
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You missed the all important "what about the people the study explicity mentioned" stage.

Soon we will be back to the "just because Wakefield made up his numbers and got struck of for bad practice, the GMC found huge academic and ethical errors in his practices... doesn't mean he was WRONG!" Stage. Again.
 
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