chrismohr
Master Poster
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2011
- Messages
- 2,080
I'll make a deal with you Chris7. I'll avoid all future accusations of a personal nature (like when I said you lied) if you will do the same to me (such as calling my letter defamatory for not including one word). Deal?
Before I send out my more extensive letter (with your correction) to Michael Newman, I will post it here for any other corrections. I realize that "major fires" is subjective but will keep it for them to weigh in on. I will email this out late tonight (Sunday).
Hi Michael,
Please omit the first version of my email and pass this corrected version along to any relevant people. Thank you!
I do have another 9/11 question, this time about the fires in Building 7. As you may know, there is still debate going on about the severity of the fires in that building. Several 9/11 Truth people, including Richard Gage whom I debated, believe the fires were relatively small and even some of those had burned out well before the collapse. They also say that much of the smoke around Building 7 was being sucked in due to low pressure from other buildings such as Building 6.
Based on photographic and video evidence, I see smoke pouring out of most floors except for perhaps a few of the top floors, smoke obviously streaming out of the building and not just bunching up against the walls. In the attached photos and in videos I have seen, it looks like the this was a major fire attacking most floors of the building.
However, the 9/11 Truth activists cite the NIST Report as evidence of scattered fires. Here is what they cite:
"You both should read the NIST report. They interviewed firefighters and studied the photos and videos. There was no inferno, just a few fires that burned at different times on a few floors. The fires on floors 19,21, 29 and 30 at the SW corner had burned out by 1 p.m. the only fire on the south side after that was floor 12. The fire on floor 8 was not seen until after 3 p.m. and the fire on floor 9 was first seen at about 4 p.m.
"NCSTAR 1-9 Vol.1 pg 118 [pdf pg 162]
It was not clear whether the smoke was coming from lower locations within WTC 7 or was from fires near WTC 7 whose smoke was being drawn into a low pressure area formed on the face due to the flow of the prevailing wind from the north around the building. (Similar effects of the wind caused partial obscuration of the east and south faces of WTC 1 prior to its collapse, as discussed in NIST NCSTAR 1-5A.)
"The same phenomenon can be seen at the NE corner of WTC 7. The only fires at this time at the NE corner were on floor 8 and floor 13.
"There were no fires on the upper floors [above floor 30] at any time.
"The fire on floor 12 had burned out by about 4:45, leaving fires on 5 floors and some of those were dying down."
So here are my questions:
1.) I believe that according to the standards of evidence applied by NIST (visible flames at windows, smoke issuing from broken windows etc.) there is no visual evidence of fire above floor 30 or on many floors below this for that matter. And you proceeded on that basis. Is this true?
2.) From your report is it proper for 9/11 Truth activists to conclude that Building 7 had there was no major fire, "just a few fires that burned at different times on a few floors"? Or is it reasonable to look at the photos and videos and conclude that the fires in Building 7 were extensive and that this could be categorized as a "major fire"? Does your report allow for the possibility that there were fires inside the building on other floors which were not visible at the windows, or do you assert, as 9/11 Truth activists do, that there were only the few fires you mentioned in the report and no others?
3.) From your report 9/11 Truth activists conclude that "The only floors on fire in that photo [at 4:53 pm, Figure 5-141] are 8 and 13. If you were to take the time to study all the photos you would know that. The smoke [along the side of the picture] is being drawn up the side because the breeze from the SW created a low pressure area just like the opposite corner... there were no fires above the 13th floor..." In other words, they claim that smoke was coming out of the building only on the 8th and 13th floors because fires on other floors had burned out by that time, and that other smoke in that picture is moving up the side of the building from an outside breeze and low pressure conditions. Is this the correct conclusion to draw from your report, or is it reasonable to infer that much of the smoke's source in the left of this picture was probably coming directly out of Building 7, creating the effect of smoke blowing horizontally from many more floors than just 8 and 13? Does your statement about outside smoke hanging alongside the building imply that all smoke visible in these pictures comes from sources outside Building 7 except smoke emanating from the floors you specifically mention?
Thank you,
Chris Mohr
Before I send out my more extensive letter (with your correction) to Michael Newman, I will post it here for any other corrections. I realize that "major fires" is subjective but will keep it for them to weigh in on. I will email this out late tonight (Sunday).
Hi Michael,
Please omit the first version of my email and pass this corrected version along to any relevant people. Thank you!
I do have another 9/11 question, this time about the fires in Building 7. As you may know, there is still debate going on about the severity of the fires in that building. Several 9/11 Truth people, including Richard Gage whom I debated, believe the fires were relatively small and even some of those had burned out well before the collapse. They also say that much of the smoke around Building 7 was being sucked in due to low pressure from other buildings such as Building 6.
Based on photographic and video evidence, I see smoke pouring out of most floors except for perhaps a few of the top floors, smoke obviously streaming out of the building and not just bunching up against the walls. In the attached photos and in videos I have seen, it looks like the this was a major fire attacking most floors of the building.
However, the 9/11 Truth activists cite the NIST Report as evidence of scattered fires. Here is what they cite:
"You both should read the NIST report. They interviewed firefighters and studied the photos and videos. There was no inferno, just a few fires that burned at different times on a few floors. The fires on floors 19,21, 29 and 30 at the SW corner had burned out by 1 p.m. the only fire on the south side after that was floor 12. The fire on floor 8 was not seen until after 3 p.m. and the fire on floor 9 was first seen at about 4 p.m.
"NCSTAR 1-9 Vol.1 pg 118 [pdf pg 162]
It was not clear whether the smoke was coming from lower locations within WTC 7 or was from fires near WTC 7 whose smoke was being drawn into a low pressure area formed on the face due to the flow of the prevailing wind from the north around the building. (Similar effects of the wind caused partial obscuration of the east and south faces of WTC 1 prior to its collapse, as discussed in NIST NCSTAR 1-5A.)
"The same phenomenon can be seen at the NE corner of WTC 7. The only fires at this time at the NE corner were on floor 8 and floor 13.
"There were no fires on the upper floors [above floor 30] at any time.
"The fire on floor 12 had burned out by about 4:45, leaving fires on 5 floors and some of those were dying down."
So here are my questions:
1.) I believe that according to the standards of evidence applied by NIST (visible flames at windows, smoke issuing from broken windows etc.) there is no visual evidence of fire above floor 30 or on many floors below this for that matter. And you proceeded on that basis. Is this true?
2.) From your report is it proper for 9/11 Truth activists to conclude that Building 7 had there was no major fire, "just a few fires that burned at different times on a few floors"? Or is it reasonable to look at the photos and videos and conclude that the fires in Building 7 were extensive and that this could be categorized as a "major fire"? Does your report allow for the possibility that there were fires inside the building on other floors which were not visible at the windows, or do you assert, as 9/11 Truth activists do, that there were only the few fires you mentioned in the report and no others?
3.) From your report 9/11 Truth activists conclude that "The only floors on fire in that photo [at 4:53 pm, Figure 5-141] are 8 and 13. If you were to take the time to study all the photos you would know that. The smoke [along the side of the picture] is being drawn up the side because the breeze from the SW created a low pressure area just like the opposite corner... there were no fires above the 13th floor..." In other words, they claim that smoke was coming out of the building only on the 8th and 13th floors because fires on other floors had burned out by that time, and that other smoke in that picture is moving up the side of the building from an outside breeze and low pressure conditions. Is this the correct conclusion to draw from your report, or is it reasonable to infer that much of the smoke's source in the left of this picture was probably coming directly out of Building 7, creating the effect of smoke blowing horizontally from many more floors than just 8 and 13? Does your statement about outside smoke hanging alongside the building imply that all smoke visible in these pictures comes from sources outside Building 7 except smoke emanating from the floors you specifically mention?
Thank you,
Chris Mohr
