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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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sgtbaker said:
The raw video shows at least one conclusive injury and one possible injury.
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Conclusive? According to who? I've said from the beginning I don't necessarily think the video shows Zimmerman wasn't injured at all, but it certainly doesn't correspond to what we've been told about the nature of his injuries.

Absent context, I don't think any reasonable person would look at that video and conclude that the arrestee was in a fight for his life less than an hour ago that resulted in him having a broken nose and scalp lacerations. The fact that people have to freeze-frame and enhance just to get something resembling an injury is testament to that.

sgtbaker said:
I have to wonder, though, if the only participant is not to be believed...
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Point of fact: Zimmerman wasn't the only participant. Just the only surviving one. Turns out he killed the other guy. Maybe you take someone trying to dodge a murder conviction at their word when they say they're innocent. I prefer something a little more substantial.

sgtbaker said:
...the only actual eye witnesses are not to be trusted...
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There are no eye witnesses that confirm Zimmerman acted in self-defense. Only that he and Martin were in an altercation.

sgtbaker said:
...and the police documentation are questionable...
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It's not my fault the police report doesn't correspond with what we see in the video. And it's also not my fault the Sanford Police Department has a history of mishandling cases like this.

sgtbaker said:
...are the only people we can draw facts from, the ones that were not there and understandably emotionally compromised? I don't mean to suggest that we should trust everything we here but come on, if the only sources for information are deemed not worthy of consideration, what exactly would satisfy you, as evidence?
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The "sources of information" we have so far are sketchy at best. And none of them - with the exception of the Zimmerman's word - confirm he acted in self-defense.

I don't owe Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt. He killed someone. It's up to him to make the case that he acted in self-defense. It's not up to me to fill in the blanks for him.
 
TheL8Elvis said:
I'll save you the viewing trouble - there are less fewer visible injuries than in the other video, IMHO.
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Yep. When he gets out of the car, and the back of his head is in full view of the camera, the resolution is good enough to distinguish between his hairline and bald spot, but still no sign of that pesky scalp laceration. Hopefully, some resourceful person will fire up their Photoshop and remedy that.
 
RandFan said:
My son has a similar bump that he has had since birth. He often gets a buzz cut and it stands out. Further, I'm not convinced it is much more than an exaggerated shadow. Not sure why you say this is conclusive.
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I am not talking about the curvature across the back of his head, it's off to the right. You can even see it when he shakes his head, right before he walks towards the door. You can even see the officer turn him to get a better look at it before he walks over in front of the camera. First he looks at the back of his head, then spins him to get a better look at the knot.

I don't know why the fact that he wasn't wheeled in on a stretcher is suddenly a challenge to his (as in Zimmerman's) claim that he was punched in the face and then when he went down Martin got on top of him and hit his head into the ground. The video countering the impression that people other than Zimmerman gave to the public, in no way has anything to do with Zimmerman's initial claim.
 
Xulld said:
So if I had thought you dropped a hundred dollar bill and ran to catch up to you, and in the moment my shirt came up revealing a holstered gun, you would immediately attack me and try to take my gun?
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We know from the conversation with the girl friend that Martin was aware of being stalked. When he asked his stalker why he was stalking him, the stalker asked him, in a rude manner, what he was doing there. Z looks like a banger in the police video. I would have concluded that this dirtbag standing in my way was not going to let me go about my business unless I hurt him badly enough. Retreat was not an option. He had already eluded the thug once, but the thug had caught up with him.

Once Martin became aware of the gun, cessation of the fight was not an option. If you piss off an armed banger and he has a gun, your chances of being shot if he retains his weapon run about 90%.

Z had no right to be armed in the circumstrances that even he describes, thus no right to retain his weapon. Self defense does not even apply under SYG.

What if I am an undercover cop just trying to give you back what I thought you dropped?
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Any idiot knows that, in that case, you would identify yourself as such when asked why you are following the subject.

Sounds to me like you are unhinged.

Personally, I react to any force with no greater force than is needed to establish my safety. ie, if the person is not reaching for their gun, I do not react as if the gun is a threat.
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That the thug who you are attempting to neutralize has a gun neccessitates that you remove the gun.

Which is what the law supports.

Id offer advice to you, that your current line of thinking is very dangerous, and could get you killed.
 
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If Trayvon wasn't black, you wouldn't see so many black experts on the news. It's kind of sad that this is the only time they'd give any of them airtime.
 
LTC8K6 said:
Why did I put the ellipsis and the smiley after "shaved and stitched" then?
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My bad. Sincerely. I was the one who missed the important social clues. (again! Damn it!) I am very sorry about that and will heed your emoticons in the future.
 
sgtbaker said:
I am not talking about the curvature across the back of his head, it's off to the right. You can even see it when he shakes his head, right before he walks towards the door. You can even see the officer turn him to get a better look at it before he walks over in front of the camera. First he looks at the back of his head, then spins him to get a better look at the knot.
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Let's assume that there is a bump there, and?
 
sgtbaker said:
I don't know why the fact that he wasn't wheeled in on a stretcher is suddenly a challenge to his (as in Zimmerman's) claim that he was punched in the face and then when he went down Martin got on top of him and hit his head into the ground. The video countering the impression that people other than Zimmerman gave to the public, in no way has anything to do with Zimmerman's initial claim.
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Zimmerman didn't have to be wheeled in on a stretcher. He just had to have injuries consistent with being in a fight for his life. Being on the receiving end of a tussle that results in minor injuries isn't justification to commit murder.
 
The photoshopped injury is not consistant with having his head banged on the concrete. Looks more like bludgeoning with a stick or a board.
 
Concrete is rather abrasive. If someone was having their (wet) scalp banged repeatedly into such a surface, is a single cut and a knot the expected sort of injury they'd end up with?
 
johnny karate said:
Zimmerman didn't have to be wheeled in on a stretcher. He just had to have injuries consistent with being in a fight for his life. Being on the receiving end of a tussle that results in minor injuries isn't justification to commit murder.
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Is there a handbook for what someone is supposed to look like after a struggle for his/her life? What are the injuries consistent with being in a fight for one's life? Where do they have to be? How deep do they have to be? How purple do they have to be?

Zimmerman just said, according to the police report, that he was punched in the face and had his head slammed into the ground. He [Zimmerman] said nothing about a broken nose, he said nothing about lacerations.
 
Well, I think I give up. Now the 13 year old witness who saw Zimmerman on the ground, apparently didn't see anything, according to his mom. She says he was pressured.

I think I'll just sit back and wait for the end result of this clusterblank of a case...
 
LTC8K6 said:
Well, I think I give up. Now the 13 year old witness who saw Zimmerman on the ground, apparently didn't see anything, according to his mom. She says he was pressured.

I think I'll just sit back and wait for the end result of this clusterblank of a case...
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I am confused. Is this this same child that a month ago, did see everything and is suffering from PTSD or is this a different 13 year old that was out walking his dog?
 
sgtbaker said:
...and what? You snipped that out of a post and challenged it. You are either satisfied or not. There's nothing more to say.
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Either there is reason to say it was conclusive or not.

Look, I've been more than willing to concede many points in this thread on both sides of the issue. I honestly don't know. If I thought it was at all conclusive I'd be there with bells on.
 
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