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Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

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Skeptic Ginger said:
This stuff reminds me of paradelia. Here's David Duke's version of find the pixels game. There are a number of different versions on blogs (search Google images of "George Zimmerman's head wound"). What is striking is they seem to all see dark spots on GZ's head in very different locations. Could it be people are just enhancing or zooming in on different shadows? That's what it looks like to me.
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That's a good point. There's also the graininess and pixelation.

Firm conclusions should not be drawn from the video at all.

Once someone does, it's natural to respond. And the media did.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Actually, yes, injuries like that on black skin are not pink but they are darker than the surrounding skin.


Wounds that cut a significant depth into the dermis, and especially those that cut through the dermis can literally ooze blood for a day or more. At a minimum a deep cut would either need a pressure bandage or it would continue to bleed for hours.

Any EMTs that saw a patient with a deep cut would have bandaged it. That's first aid 101.

A broken nose does not need to displace the cartilage. But more often than not it does. Cartilage is more flexible than bone so it doesn't 'crack' as easily. It's not impossible, but usually you have to displace the cartilage in order for it to break. A bone, which is harder is also more brittle and can more often crack without being displaced.

As for a black eye from a face punch, it often doesn't show for a day or more. If you broke your nose the bruising would be significant. There is a rich blood supply to any bone and that includes the nasal cartilage. However, without a picture of GZ the following day, we can't say. It might not show that night.

I've been a nurse since 1976 and a nurse practitioner since 1985. I've worked in a dozen different fields including the ED and ICU as well as outpatient family practice. Currently my specialty is occupational infectious disease and I provide services to a number of fire departments for their infectious disease and blood exposures.

I will go back and revisit the images in the last few thread pages.
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Thank you for your detailed reply. It is very much appreciated.
 
I just have one question. The officer noted on the original incident report, a bloody nose and a wound on the back of the head. I don't recall seeing the fat lip but I don't feel like digging through this thread to find links to the incident report. Whether or not the crappy camera catches the image of the head wound or enhances it, or whatever else we are fighting about; I am trying to figure out what the argument is. Are we now saying that there is no place on his head that the police saw bleeding or are we just saying it's not that bad. The former insinuates that the police officer who noted it, was lying for some reason or another. The latter means that we have a threshhold of damage that one has to meet before we can justify him/her being afraid for their life (going on Zimmerman's self defense claim).
 
Xulld said:
I have read the law, however you assessment of it is ridiculous.

The force level of following is zero.
The force level of asking a question is zero.
Without a verbal, or overt threat taking an aggressive action is unwarranted. (IMHO even a verbal threat is not a warrant for a physical action)
Stalking is a specific law which requires more than one occurrence, so this usage is just as silly as your usage of the SYG law.

If I said, "Im gunna kill you", then reach for my gun, THAT is different. The physical action of reaching for my gun would be an overt threat, otherwise you have no warrant to action.

. . and this is all moot, as you have to have evidence that shows this occurred. Otherwise its all imaginary.
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Yes, it's all imaginary. But it has to be, because we don't know what happened.

Because of that, it's impossible to deny that Martin may very well have been within his rights under the law to take violent action against Zimmerman.

That's all I'm saying as far as that point goes.
 
LTC8K6 said:
It's going to be interesting around here if we get to see evidence photos of Zimmerman's injuries taken shortly after that video was taken.
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Well they're already claiming the police report is bogus, maybe they'll claim any photos are photoshopped.
 
sgtbaker said:
~~~~
I am trying to figure out what the argument is. Are we now saying that there is no place on his head that the police saw bleeding or are we just saying it's not that bad. ~~~~
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Yep. Most posters are saying small entry wound. A couple are saying back of skull missing and brains blown out.... (sorry, wrong thread... to CT!)
 
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19:17, time of police arrival on the scene. 19:52 time stamp on the police station video.

That means there was only 35 minutes between the incident and the video. Supposedly that was enough time for the injuries to be treated, cleaned up and GZ recovered from the injuries. At a minimum this is evidence the extent of the injuries have been grossly exaggerated by the GZ defenders.

If TM had only punched GZ in the nose once (there wasn't a lot of time for much else), is that enough to justify shooting TM? Is that really what FL law supports? You can kill anyone who hits you?
 
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WildCat said:
Well they're already claiming the police report is bogus, maybe they'll claim any photos are photoshopped.
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You mean like the only picture supposedly showing an injury that actually is photoshopped?

And I wasn't aware that police reports are considered irrefutable documents of exactly what transpired, and can never, ever under any circumstances be questioned. Thanks for that valuable lesson in jurisprudence!
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
19:17, time of police arrival on the scene. 19:52 time stamp on the police station video.

That means there was only 35 minutes between the incident and the video. Supposedly that was enough time for the injuries to be treated, cleaned up and GZ recovered from the injuries. At a minimum this is evidence the extent of the injuries have been grossly exaggerated by the GZ defenders.
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It's at least a 10 minute drive from the shooting location to the Sanford police station. That doesn't leave a lot of time to clean up George before hauling him in.
 
Kestrel said:
It's at least a 10 minute drive from the shooting location to the Sanford police station. That doesn't leave a lot of time to clean up George before hauling him in.
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Well, it's already been demonstrated that the EMTs had amazing healing powers. It's not that much more of stretch to think they could also manipulate time.
 
johnny karate said:
You mean like the only picture supposedly showing an injury that actually is photoshopped?

And I wasn't aware that police reports are considered irrefutable documents of exactly what transpired, and can never, ever under any circumstances be questioned. Thanks for that valuable lesson in jurisprudence!
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The raw video shows at least one conclusive injury and one possible injury. I have to wonder, though, if the only participant is not to be believed, the only actual eye witnesses are not to be trusted, and the police documentation are questionable; are the only people we can draw facts from, the ones that were not there and understandably emotionally compromised? I don't mean to suggest that we should trust everything we here but come on, if the only sources for information are deemed not worthy of consideration, what exactly would satisfy you, as evidence?
 
RandFan said:
I missed it. What is the time stamp? I've seen a lot of photos and not one that I could call "conclusive".
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The knot on the back of his head at about 1:04. He turns his back to the camera and looks down. Right at that moment you can see a very obvious lump down on the lower right side of his head, right where it curves in to the neck.
 
sgtbaker said:
The knot on the back of his head at about 1:04. He turns his back to the camera and looks down. Right at that moment you can see a very obvious lump down on the lower right side of his head, right where it curves in to the neck.
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My son has a similar bump that he has had since birth. He often gets a buzz cut and it stands out. Further, I'm not convinced it is much more than an exaggerated shadow. Not sure why you say this is conclusive. If an expert told me it was I would still not be entirely convinced but it would help. As it is I have no idea what it is. Seriously.
 
different angle video

I found the video with the other angle at http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/video/caught_on_tape/video-shows-zimmerman-after-killing

If you want to skip the add, below is the direct link to the MP4 file:
http://media2.wwlp.com/video/critic...immeree06e7e7-3b4a-49f5-94df-61a3bdbd5b05.mp4

I'll save you the viewing trouble - there are less fewer visible injuries than in the other video, IMHO.

I guess this is the official video ?
SANFORD, Fla. (SPD) - Video of George Zimmerman being detained by police the night he shot and killed Trayvon Martin has been released by the Sanford Police Department.

But it cuts to the other camera earlier than the abc one. I don't know what to make of it. :confused:
 
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