Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[This is The End]

Not really.

It might mitigate your charge or sentence, depending on the exact circumstances.

That's what I thought the conclusion was pages ago. That instead of "completely free on self defense" it would be manslaughter or something.

 

[triforcharity]

And now the lack of visible bruising on a low-res surveillance video is evidence?

Not yet, just curious that not even a bandage appears. But, maybe it's one of those blending, neutral color ones.

And I will agree, that low-res video isn't all that reliable, especially since other higher res photos will eventually be available.

Christ on a stick, this is reminiscent of truthers who claim the airplane that hit the World Trade Center had no windows so was obviously a drone, offering low-res video as proof.

Not even close.

 

[This is The End]

Unless I am miseading your post, you seem to be saying that the person who initiates a confrontaion can then be legally killed, and they lose the right to self defense because they 'started it'.

If they started it by kicking in a door, or committing a forcible felony, that's one thing, but if they just started it by asking 'What are you doing here?', or even with mild physical contact...

Then no, you won't find a link that says they have no right to defend themself should the other party suddenly escalate to deadly force.

Again, not that "they would have no right to defend themselves", only that it would go from "being completely free on self defense" to a charge of some sort.

Again, in that specific hypothetical.

 

[Checkmite]

What's the plate number of the police car?

You can clearly tell whether or not there's letters on it.

Like I said, I'm sure the police took close up photos.

 

[triforcharity]

I edited my original (unprofessional) assessment of the video. At 1:04, he looks down and you can see a lump on the back if his head, down by his neck and a line at the top of the back of his head. That could be a trick of the light or a wound, I can't tell. I doubt a bandage would stick to his head as it seems to be buzzed and not clean shaven.

A bandage from EMT's would. A bandaid, not so much.

 

[RandFan]

Well, as an aside, do you have to wait until you are severely injured?

No. You only need to reasonably believe your life is in danger.

 

[johnny karate]

I see an injury to the back of his head in the video.

I see a slight discoloration on the back of his head that may be some type of injury, or just a shadow. You can clearly see the outline of the back of his head from several different angles, and it does not appear at all misshapen or swollen.

Again, we were told Zimmerman had his head repeatedly bashed onto concrete. There is nothing in that video that indicates this is true.

 

[crimresearch]

But there's no reason for us to review those laws, because we both are saying they apply. Why spend the time?

As for SYG, I don't know why you think that "Zimmerman's own account" is the only thing we need to concern ourselves with here.

If Martin felt that he was threatened by Zimmerman in a place where he had a right to be -- which is difficult to argue against -- then Martin had a SYG right, so he was justified in trying to disable Zimmerman, which is problematic for a defense.

So SYG will come in that way.

It will also likely come in on the Zimmerman side because the confrontation was in a public place and Zimmerman pursued Martin with a weapon. If not for SYG, it could be argued that Zimmerman had an obligation to remain in his vehicle if he suspected that Martin posed any sort of threat (contrast SYG with retreat laws).

So it's likely going to come into this case one way or the other, and probably from both ends.

The media is calling this one correctly.

The reason to actually study the *pertinent* laws in their entirety, and compare the relevant elements and figure out the legal reasoning behind them, would be to learn something you don't already know, and perhaps be...what's that word?
Oh yes, 'skeptical' of the media hype.

 

[Piggy]

The reason to actually study the *pertinent* laws in their entirety, and compare the relevant elements and figure out the legal reasoning behind them, would be to learn something you don't already know, and perhaps be...what's that word?
Oh yes, 'skeptical' of the media hype.

Like I said, we don't disagree that those laws pertain.

So I don't see your point here.

Do you disagree that SYG also pertains to the case, as I've described? If so, why?

 

[LTC8K6]

I see a slight discoloration on the back of his head that may be some type of injury, or just a shadow. You can clearly see the outline of the back of his head from several different angles, and it does not appear at all misshapen or swollen.

Again, we were told Zimmerman had his head repeatedly bashed onto concrete. There is nothing in that video that indicates this is true.

I think this is something that we will know definitively either way soon.

The video headline sounds pretty damning to both Zimmerman and SPD. If they have evidence to counter it, they will either show it, or tell us about it.

If they do not do so, it will look very bad, and we will be justified in assuming the injuries were exaggerated at best.

 

[johnny karate]

What's the plate number of the police car?

You are being disingenuous. Zimmerman supposedly had a broken nose and scalp lacerations. That video shows no evidence of that. No blood. No bandages. Nothing that would indicate he was injured as badly as he claimed.

 

[crimresearch]

Again, not that "they would have no right to defend themselves", only that it would go from "being completely free on self defense" to a charge of some sort.

Again, in that specific hypothetical.

Being the initiator of the whole sequence of events is likely to play a much larger role in a lawsuit or even a negligent homicide charge.

But when fistfight changes to a deadly weapon, it is the person who initiates the *new* level of danger who can be presumed to be the threat. Here, the shooter is claiming the deceased went for a gun first.

 

[WildCat]

You can clearly tell whether or not there's letters on it.

Like I said, I'm sure the police took close up photos.

So you can't even read the 4" high letters on the license plate, which are manufactured to be as visible as possible, and yet you expect to see a swollen lip and a broken nose and a gash on his head?

The resolution of the video is simply incapable of capturing such minute details, that's not what it's designed to do. You are expecting way too much from that medium.

 

[WildCat]

I see a slight discoloration on the back of his head that may be some type of injury, or just a shadow. You can clearly see the outline of the back of his head from several different angles, and it does not appear at all misshapen or swollen.

Again, we were told Zimmerman had his head repeatedly bashed onto concrete. There is nothing in that video that indicates this is true.

If you squint just right you can see a blobsquatch sitting in the back of the police car...

 

[crimresearch]

Like I said, we don't disagree that those laws pertain.

So I don't see your point here.

Do you disagree that SYG also pertains to the case, as I've described? If so, why?

You've been denyng that the 'justifiable use of deadly force while in fear for your life' laws apply from the get-go, and claiming that instead that another set of laws that only the media calls 'Stand Your Ground', applies instead.

It has been explained numerous times what the difference is, and why those laws do, and SYG does not, apply in this case.

That makes your claims that I agree with you, along with your repeated refusal to even look at the other statutes, disingenuous in the extreme.. .clearly this is some sort of fantasy game for you, and I refuse to play.

 

[Checkmite]

I think this is something that we will know definitively either way soon.

The video headline sounds pretty damning to both Zimmerman and SPD. If they have evidence to counter it, they will either show it, or tell us about it.

If they do not do so, it will look very bad, and we will be justified in assuming the injuries were exaggerated at best.

I agree with this. The police almost have to respond to this officially somehow. Let's see how they do.

Someone inside the PD keeps leaking these reports, videos, and other information. I find that intriguing. I wonder if it might be more than one person; most of the information released so far seems to make Zimmerman look bad, but then there was that leak about Martin's disciplinary history at school. I don't know.

 

[WildCat]

I agree with this. The police almost have to respond to this officially somehow. Let's see how they do.

Someone inside the PD keeps leaking these reports, videos, and other information. I find that intriguing. I wonder if it might be more than one person; most of the information released so far seems to make Zimmerman look bad, but then there was that leak about Martin's disciplinary history at school. I don't know.

The video was probably from a FOI request, it really has no evidentiary value.

 

[johnny karate]

So you can't even read the 4" high letters on the license plate, which are manufactured to be as visible as possible, and yet you expect to see a swollen lip and a broken nose and a gash on his head?

The resolution of the video is simply incapable of capturing such minute details, that's not what it's designed to do. You are expecting way too much from that medium.

Can you tell whether or not Zimmerman has his head bandaged? Can you tell whether or not Zimmerman is bloodied?

Because I can.

If you squint just right you can see a blobsquatch sitting in the back of the police car...

You might need to have your eyes checked. The video shows a lot more detail than you allege.

Again, no one is claiming Zimmerman is completely injury-free, but rather that this video does not any in way substantiate the nature and seriousness of the injuries he claimed to have.

 

[LTC8K6]

I agree with this. The police almost have to respond to this officially somehow. Let's see how they do.

Someone inside the PD keeps leaking these reports, videos, and other information. I find that intriguing. I wonder if it might be more than one person; most of the information released so far seems to make Zimmerman look bad, but then there was that leak about Martin's disciplinary history at school. I don't know.

Yeah, there seems to be a tit for tat thing going on in the media.

These reported injuries are a crucial part of Zimmerman's defense and the story SPD has told about the case.

 

[WildCat]

You might need to have your eyes checked. The video shows a lot more detail than you allege.

What's the license plate number?