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The death throes of a conspiracy theory.

jaydeehess said:
Japan invading neighbours and showing its desire to dominate the Pacific and south Asia. Would that be enough to cause other Pacific nations to look at their options or not?
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No........... you lie it was a Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere........or at least thats what the Japanese called it :cool:
 
jaydeehess said:
Japan invading neighbours and showing its desire to dominate the Pacific and south Asia. Would that be enough to cause other Pacific nations to look at their options or not?
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Looking at their options is one thing, actively attempting to provoke someone into conflict is another.

The McCollum memo points to a desire in our government to provoke Japan into firing the first shot. Since that is the case, why should anyone believe that our government didn't desire to have Pearl Harbor be the target of that first shot?
 
LSSBB said:
After hearing this tactic ad naseum on the 9/11 CT boards, I am convinced he is being intentionally obtuse on the subject of proving a negative. You can quote Sagan and garage dragons to him until he is blue in the face.
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Which is why he's here in this thread now. His one-trick is played out over in 9/11 CT.
 
The Dark Lord said:
No. We don't need to prove a negative. You fail.
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The claim:

The U.S. government had no foreknowledge of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and did not allow it to happen.
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This claim is a positive claim. It asserts a positive - that there was an absence of both foreknowledge and complicity on the part of the U.S. government. The evidence to support this claim is arbitrarily limited by none other than the U.S. government itself.

If you can't prove this claim, then by definition you are speculating. This makes you a "conspiracy theorist".
 
So, what you're saying is that you have no evidence whatsoever that Roosevelt and naval intelligence had foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attack?

I see...
 
SpringHallConvert said:
The claim:



This claim is a positive claim. It asserts a positive - that there was an absence of both foreknowledge and complicity on the part of the U.S. government. The evidence to support this claim is arbitrarily limited by none other than the U.S. government itself.

If you can't prove this claim, then by definition you are speculating. This makes you a "conspiracy theorist".
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The claim is supported by the evidence you refuse to even look at because you are a lazy, dishonest troll.

This evidence plus the complete lack of evidence of any foreknowledge means that the only reasonable conclusion is that there was no foreknowledge.

Nobody is required to meet your impossible demand to prove that the government was "without foreknowledge". That is a negative and no more possible to prove than that there is no invisible dragon in my garage.

No, instead, if you want people to believe your religion, you need to present evidence. Of course, you have none.
 
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SpringHallConvert said:
The McCollum memo points to a desire in our government to provoke Japan into firing the first shot. Since that is the case, why should anyone believe that our government didn't desire to have Pearl Harbor be the target of that first shot?
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This is a lie. It was Stinnett's lie, and it has been thoroughly discredited. That McCollum memo was a strategy to contain Japan and deter them from further war, not to start a bigger war!
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Right, which amounts to the same amount of evidence as yours.

See where this is going yet?
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Is this where you start with that tired religious adage of the absence of evidence perchance? Because I hate to burst your bubble (well, not relay) but that's exactly what means, is that it's evidence of absence.
 
Rich_C said:
This is a lie. It was Stinnett's lie, and it has been thoroughly discredited. That McCollum memo was a strategy to contain Japan and deter them from further war, not to start a bigger war!
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Boy, you lie like a rug!

From the McCollum memo:

...It is not believed that in the present state of political opinion the United States government is capable of declaring war against Japan without more ado [...] If by [the elucidated eight-point plan] Japan could be led to commit an overt act of war, so much the better."
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Yeah, that sure sounds like a containment policy alright! Hey, let's lead Japan into firing the first shot!

Ha, ha, ha! You government truthers sure know how to shovel the B.S.!
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Yeah, that sure sounds like a containment policy alright! Hey, let's lead Japan into firing the first shot!
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First off I'm willing to wager that this is a quote taken badly out of context and I'm sure one of the more history savvy will be about to correct you. Second, I've explained this to you before but the practice you are talking about would not be a very well thought out, tactically sound strategy. It would be very stupid.
 
@shc: Did you read the entire Wikipedia article where you lifted the quote? Did you read the entire memo?
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Boy, you lie like a rug!

From the McCollum memo:



Yeah, that sure sounds like a containment policy alright! Hey, let's lead Japan into firing the first shot!

Ha, ha, ha! You government truthers sure know how to shovel the B.S.!
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Prove that's what the original memo said. Remember, don't use any government or media sources.

:rolleyes:
 
Mudcat said:
First off I'm willing to wager that this is a quote taken badly out of context and I'm sure one of the more history savvy will be about to correct you. Second, I've explained this to you before but the practice you are talking about would not be a very well thought out, tactically sound strategy. It would be very stupid.
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How so?
 
SpringHallConvert said:
Why, did you? Are you disputing the accuracy of the quote?
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Yes, I did. And I'm not disputing your skills in copy and paste. I disagree with the conclusions you draw.

I suggest you read At Dawn We Slept - it's a bit of a slog to get through it, but you'll find it enlightening.

Another good book that you'd find useful is Sea of Thunder.

Of course, both books are completely contrary to your beliefs, so you'll dismiss them out of hand, but in the faint hope...
 
AJM8125 said:
This would be the aforementioned one-trick.
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That's the beauty of it, though. I only need one trick to hammer you guys into a losing position. I don't need ten. I don't even need two. I only need one.

And of course, you're completely defenseless to do anything about it.
 
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