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The death throes of a conspiracy theory.

Gawdzilla said:
Joint Committee Exhibit 17 shows just how unlikely it was for the President to initiate a provocative policy in regard to Japan.
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I'll bow to your more intimate knowledge of pertinent docuements. I was going by what I recalled of my "Modern History " credit course in university several decades ago in which Japanese expansionism, particularily in China was being opposed, at least via diplomatic channels, by the USA.
 
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Gawdzilla said:
Happy to provide a link. It's a one pager. http://ibiblio.org/pha/congress/Joint Committee Exhibits/Exhibit 017.pdf
5th paragraph.
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Ohhh, I see the confusion. I was referring to the USA and others response to what the Japanese were doing in the years leading up to 1941. Huge Naval expansion, invasion of China and French Indonesia for eg.

yes, the USA was beginning preparations to confront possible further Japanese moves by November 1941.

Apparently SHC would believe that the fact that not only was PH properly prepared, but also the Phillipines, Hong Kong, Shanghai etc. etc. was just a ruse by FDR.
American entry into WWII is according to this logic is a bit like a "Get Smart" plot where Max is captured and imprisonedby KAOS only to declare "I've got them just where I want them now".
 
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jaydeehess said:
The summary from one of those links says it quite succinctly. Others could paraphrase it for you but as far as i can see it doesn't need further summarizing.
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Continuing on:

In this post I quoted the summary from one of the links in Gawdzilla's sig. "Myths of Pearl Harbor"
This addresses SHC's itch for a summary yet no evidence so far that SHC bothered to click a link yet.
 
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Gawdzilla said:
Only two of the points in the McCollum Memo were actually enacted after it was written. Other were planned and cancel. See Army 236 for details.
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If there was no intent to provoke Japan, why were any of the points enacted at all? Why did we even have naval intelligence working on methods to provoke Japan in the first place?
 
SpringHallConvert said:
If there was no intent to provoke Japan, why were any of the points enacted at all?
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To explain that I'd have to tell you which two were enacted. And I don't intend to do that.
Why did we even have naval intelligence working on methods to provoke Japan in the first place?
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They hide that information in books.
 
SpringHallConvert said:
If there was no intent to provoke Japan, why were any of the points enacted at all? Why did we even have naval intelligence working on methods to provoke Japan in the first place?
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Japan invading neighbours and showing its desire to dominate the Pacific and south Asia. Would that be enough to cause other Pacific nations to look at their options or not?
 
jaydeehess said:
The summary from one of those links says it quite succinctly. Others could paraphrase it for you but as far as i can see it doesn't need further summarizing.
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The quoted passage is quite clearly speculative.

Anything else? Where is the actual evidence of Roosevelt and naval intelligence being without foreknowledge?
 
Gawdzilla said:
For light reading: http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/policy/index.html
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I cant find that citation for the original Hawaii Plan :( damn hate getting old. All I recall was the original plan was looking at actually invading the Islands as an option. I can find a time line for the major expansion of the Pearl facilities through the 30s but nothing indicating the Japanese took a real interest in these plans

So for now I will have to withdraw the comment
 
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