Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[LTC8K6]

My point is only that it is really bad form for the police to be correcting statements from witnesses. Sure they could ask "Are you sure it was Martin screaming and not Zimmerman?", but they shouldn't be telling a witness that they are wrong in what they heard. Its not good evidence gathering.

Personally I am inclined at them moment to think that self defence is backed up enough at least for reasonable doubt. But it sounds like the police at the scene really screwed things up.

She supports Zimmerman in her 911 call as far as I can tell.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Well, it's not factual.

Did Martin have tattoos?

He wasn't staying with his divorced mother either.

Father.

But yes, that is factual.

Yes, multiple tattoos.

Oops, father. My bad on that. I apologize - I shouldn't make a mistake when being snarky, it looks bad.

 

[triforcharity]

And one witness was "corrected" by the police when she said it was Martin screaming.

Yeah, that is a HUGE problem. That police officer has now tainted that evidence.

MAJOR problem, and IMO, should be grounds for dismissal.

 

[332nd]

Who was beating the crap out of him for following him?

& then reaching for something on his person.

 

[WildCat]

In 2005, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest with violence..

Arrrrrrggggggghhhhh!

The actual charge was "resisting arrest without violence.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Arrrrrrggggggghhhhh!

The actual charge was "resisting arrest without violence.

Sorry, that was my cut and paste from one of the news sites.

 

[LTC8K6]

& then reaching for something on his person.

Nice! But again, just speculation. We wouldn't want it taken as factual.

Of course there are all sorts of scenarios with a fight that ends in a shooting.

Hypothetically, you could start a fight with your fists, the fight proceeds with fists, until the other guy gets a life threatening advantage. Now your life is in danger, because the guy has won the fight with you, but he won't stop. He is going farther than just winning a fist fight. You pull your gun and defend your life.

 

[triforcharity]

Yes, multiple tattoos.

Really? That's surprising. Do you have a link?
(not that it matters much, tattoos don't make anyone a thug, I am just more curious.)

Oops, father. My bad on that. I apologize - I shouldn't make a mistake when being snarky, it looks bad.

No worries. Happens to all of us!

 

[crimresearch]

It sounds like you need to argue with fairfax county and thier fantasies

The county clerk is responsible for marriage licenses in VA.
http://virginia.usmarriagelaws.com/

Just say " I was wrong" and move on.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/hr/magistrate.htm

Magistrate Positions

Magistrate, Full-Time
Region 5 – 19th Judicial District – Fairfax

The Commonwealth of Virginia has an opening for a magistrate for Fairfax County. The magistrate is an independent judicial officer appointed by the Executive Secretary for the Supreme Court of Virginia. Responsibilities include conducting criminal and civil judicial hearings. This is a full-time position that consists of rotating shifts including weekends and holidays. Applicants must be residents of Virginia.

Duties and responsibilities include, but are not limited to:

Conducting neutral and impartial hearings related to search warrants, arrests, temporary detentions, and bail
Conducting legal research and analysis
Ascertaining and applying facts to relevant legal principles
Maintaining order and decorum in highly charged, sensitive circumstances
Receiving and accounting for money

OK... you were wrong, as your link clearly shows.

They are not trial judges, they act as JPs, they are not Supreme Court judges, and under 'other duties', a magistrate out in the boonies (If you think Fairfax and Orange counties are the same, you know nothing about Virginia), a marriage license is one of the pieces of paper that a magistrate can process after the wedding ceremony if the county clerk authorizes them to perform a marriage.
So, moving on, that gives the the 'son of a judge, so they fixed this case' meme a delousing and debunking, and that gives GZ a false statement on an official application to detract from his credibility in any future trial.

 

[triforcharity]

Nice! But again, just speculation. We wouldn't want it taken as factual.

Of course there are all sorts of scenarios with a fight that ends in a shooting.

Hypothetically, you could start a fight with your fists, the fight proceeds with fists, until the other guy gets a life threatening advantage. Now your life is in danger, because the guy has won the fight with you, but he won't stop. He is going farther than just winning a fist fight. You pull your gun and defend your life.

Which, at that point, you as the aggressor would HAVE to make every attempt to break off the fight, including trying to escape, before you could use deadly force. SYG doesn't apply if you're the aggressor.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

OK, I'm going to paint a picture.

Zimmerman leaves his home, driving clockwise around Retreat View Circle, and stops at the crossing in front of the Clubhouse. On or about to use the crossing is Martin. Maybe he's dawdling or not moving fast enough for Zimmerman's liking. Zimmerman does not recognise him. Maybe they mutually eyeball each other, maybe not. Zimmerman see Martin head on to Twin Trees Lane, so he takes a snap decision to check this unknown youth out. He turns right onto Twin Trees Lane, perhaps driving slowly. As they pass, maybe their eyes meet (again), but either way Martin realises that the vehicle at the crossing now seems to be shadowing him, so he slows down a bit (more).

Zimmerman drives up to the crossing by the cut-through on Twin Trees Lane and stops, switching off his engine. He calls the police. He continues to watch for Martin, either by twisting around in his seat, or using his mirrors.

Martin now comes around the left hand bend in Twin Trees Lane, and sees that the mysterious vehicle has stopped about 75 metres ahead of him, but the driver is not getting out, and may appear to be watching him. Not quite sure what's going on, he may slow down more or even stop walking. He looks around to see if anyone else is about. The vehicle stays where it is, and Martin decides to carry on walking, but not too quickly, hoping the vehicle will drive off before he reaches it.

Zimmerman tells the police that the stranger is acting funny, "looking at all the houses," and then that he is, "coming to check me out."

Martin approaches the vehicle, then cuts across the crossing, and into the cut-through, speeding up in the knowledge that the vehicle can't follow, and the driver would have to get out and follow on foot. He calls his girlfriend.

Zimmerman tells the police that Martin is running, and gets out of his vehicle, following Martin, who he loses sight of behind the buildings as he (Martin) goes into the cut-through. He tells the police that Martin is heading for the "back entrance."

Martin turns onto the path between the houses. He knows he's about 150 metres from where he is staying, and can either run or hide. He choses the latter and manages to find some sort of cover.

Zimmerman comes in via the cut-through and looks down the wide gap between the houses, pausing for a few moments to satisfy himself that Martin is not running down there. Already convinced that Martin was already heading for the back entrance, he continues across the cut-through to Retreat View Circle, where he finds that Martin is not in sight there, either. Still on the phone to the police, he says he doesn't want to give him home address because, "I don't know where this kid is," i.e. he thinks he may be hiding within earshot. He stays where he is whilst directing to police to where his vehicle is. He ends the call to the police and then looks around some more to see if Martin is hiding, but doesn't see anything. He may actually walk some way down Retreat View Circle in this process.

Meanwhile, Martin - still on the phone to his girlfriend - is still hiding. He may have seen Zimmerman as he passed through to Retreat View Circle, but certainly cannot see him now. He doesn't tell his girlfriend he was hiding, because... well... he'll sound like a wimp. Eventually he convinces himself that Zimmerman is not coming back, so emerges from his hiding place.

Zimmerman, having satisfied himself that Martin is not anywhere on Retreat View Circle, heads back to his vehicle via the cut-through. In the process, he spots Martin again between the houses heading south to where is is staying, and approaches him. Martin either sees Zimmerman, because he keeps looking behind him to be sure, or he hears footsteps behind. He asks Zimmerman why he's following him. Zimmerman asks what he's doing there....

That's all plausible. I appreciate the effort.

I really hadn't considered TM hiding, and GZ walking past him, then walking back to his truck.

 

[crimresearch]

Well, it's not factual.

Did Martin have tattoos?

He wasn't staying with his divorced mother either.

Father.

But yes, that is factual.

I thought the 'criminal justice major' claim was also debunked?

http://www.wtkr.com/news/nationworl...ge-zimmerman-college-20120322,0,4913922.story

Zimmerman, 28, first enrolled at the college in 2003 and was working toward a vocational certificate to become an insurance agent. He re-enrolled in 2009 and was working toward an Associate in Arts degree in a general studies program, according to the college.

 

[WildCat]

Maybe that's because the charge was reduced to "without violence", as has been posted numerous times, and what one would discover with the slightest bit of google fu...

But don't worry about it...it's not like facts matter or anything...

Cops often get a bit overzealous when filing charges. I have a friend who's a cop, and in his rookie year he had beat the snot out of some gangbanger who was resisting arrest. He had charged him with assault on a police officer but it was withdrawn when his supervisor pointed out "was he assaulting your fist with his face?"

 

[332nd]

Nice! But again, just speculation. We wouldn't want it taken as factual.

I thought Zimmerman said he reached for his phone?

Of course there are all sorts of scenarios with a fight that ends in a shooting.

Hypothetically, you could start a fight with your fists, the fight proceeds with fists, until the other guy gets a life threatening advantage. Now your life is in danger, because the guy has won the fight with you, but he won't stop. He is going farther than just winning a fist fight. You pull your gun and defend your life.

Well in that case you stared the fight so...

 

[Peacock]

Is there any scientific way to determine who is screaming on the 911 tape?

 

[triforcharity]

Arrrrrrggggggghhhhh!

The actual charge was "resisting arrest without violence.

That actual charge that they FILED was "Resisting Arrest WITH violence", and was dropped down to W/O violence in a plea agreement called Pre Trial Diversion.

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=5782626

Here is the original charge.

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=5797428

And here is the final charge.



Wanna keep going?

ETA: Here is all the stuff that Orange County has for him.
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/Se...08,600,601,602,603,604&NodeDesc=Orange+County

Zimmerman George

DOB 10/05/1983

 

[332nd]

That's all plausible. I appreciate the effort.

I really hadn't considered TM hiding, and GZ walking past him, then walking back to his truck.

Neither had I. It would make sense.

 

[332nd]

Doubtful. The 10-20-Life law applies to when someone is committing a felony.

If during the commission of a felony, a person pulls a gun, 10 years.

If that gun is fired, 20 years.

If someone is hit by the bullet, no matter if they live or die, it's a mandatory life imprisonment.

See here.
http://www.dc.state.fl.us/oth/10-20-life/


And here.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...087&URL=0700-0799/0775/Sections/0775.087.html

It wouldn't apply, but a great question.

Ah I see. Thanks.

 

[crimresearch]

That actual charge that they FILED was "Resisting Arrest WITH violence", and was dropped down to W/O violence in a plea agreement called Pre Trial Diversion.

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=5782626

Here is the original charge.

http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/CaseDetail.aspx?CaseID=5797428

And here is the final charge.



Wanna keep going?

ETA: Here is all the stuff that Orange County has for him.
http://myclerk.myorangeclerk.com/Se...08,600,601,602,603,604&NodeDesc=Orange+County

Zimmerman George

DOB 10/05/1983

Now come on, don't you know that posting those facts like that just isn't fair? You are spoiling some perfectly good fiction writing.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

That's all plausible. I appreciate the effort.

I really hadn't considered TM hiding, and GZ walking past him, then walking back to his truck.

The only thing that bothers me about that scenario is that he was talking on the phone whilst he would have been hiding. And we don't have any mention of it being in "hushed tones".