Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[Checkmite]

That is mostly true (ETA : in my opinion). The only thing I would change is I think he convinced himself Martin was a potential criminal.

Everyone is a potential criminal. But I don't think Zimmerman would refer to everyone as "these (blank)holes". Nor do I understand why he would confidently refer to someone he only thought might possibly have been a criminal as a (blank)hole unless he had some anger issues. Swearing repeatedly while on the phone with the police (with or without the alleged racial slur) seems to indicate active anger or frustration with the way the situation was unfolding.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Go back and consider the timeline, the girlfriend's testimony and the location.

The evidence does not support the scenario that T attacked Z after Z was returning to his SUV. Why would Z tell the police that if he wasn't trying to cover up the fact he knew the true scenario looked bad?

The only contradiction I am aware of in the those three items is the girlfriends account of the words exchanged and GZ account of the words exchanged.

What evidence are you referring to ?

I made a map here, it may be helpful regarding the location. If you think it's incorrect, please speak up.

 

[LTC8K6]

Martin was running away. Following someone who's running away from you is "giving chase".

You could possibly just move a little and keep him in sight as he runs. I can't see any evidence that Martin and Zimmerman were running.

Zimmerman hasn't a prayer of catching Martin, and he would know that instantly.

If Martin ran from Zimmerman, we wouldn't be discussing his death, imo.

 

[Roadtoad]

That was reported long ago. The police report recommended a manslaughter charge to the DA.

The cries of "The police didn't even investigate!" drowned it out.

Some tolerance is advised. Check Alex's post count.

Welcome, Alex, for what it's worth.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Everyone is a potential criminal. But I don't think Zimmerman would refer to everyone as "these (blank)holes". Nor do I understand why he would confidently refer to someone he only thought might possibly have been a criminal as a (blank)hole unless he had some anger issues. Swearing repeatedly while on the phone with the police (with or without the alleged racial slur) seems to indicate active anger or frustration with the way the situation was unfolding.

Same question as Kestrel:
If I agree with all this, it still doesn't prove GZ intended to do anything but follow the ******* to make sure he didn't get away.

Right ?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Because in 8 years he never attempted to detain anyone he found suspicious? And would have to be brain-dead to not know that doing so is illeal?

Re argument #1- but he was getting more frustrated "they always get away".
#2 Clearly he was brain-dead following the kid in the first place.

I get it you assess the situation one way and I another. But I call BS on your declarations of fact which are really no more than speculation based on weak arguments.

 

[a_unique_person]

Nor did he do anything other than watch Martin...until punched by Martin.

Oh wait, you don't like that version.

Except that he said Martin tried to take his gun off him. How did Martin know he had a gun?

 

[AlexW]

Some tolerance is advised. Check Alex's post count.

Welcome, Alex, for what it's worth.

Thanks. I like to try and avoid reposting stuff so apologies for that. The ABC news article was linked in blog post on Slate today so I figured it was "newer".

 

[RandFan]

Same question as Kestrel:
If I agree with all this, it still doesn't prove GZ intended to do anything but follow the ******* to make sure he didn't get away.

My position from the start has been the null hypothesis as far as GZ's intentions. My concern has been in regards to negligence and recklessness. I'm less certain of that now but not entirely disabused of it.

 

[Roadtoad]

Thanks. I like to try and avoid reposting stuff so apologies for that. The ABC news article was linked in blog post on Slate today so I figured it was "newer".

Easy enough mistake to make. All of us have made it.

Considering how long this particular thread has run, anyone could have made it, and some of us have. It's especially painful because a lot of stuff gets repeated, ignored, and becomes a point of contention when it shouldn't.

 

[LTC8K6]

Except that he said Martin tried to take his gun off him. How did Martin know he had a gun?

If I punch you out and get you down on the ground, I'm going to realize you have a gun.

If I realize you have a gun before then, I am not going near you. I am going to call 911 and say there's a guy with a gun following me.

If I am young and athletic, and a chunky out of shape guy is following me, I run as fast as I can and chunky boy is left well to the rear and wondering where I disappeared to.

 

[LTC8K6]

Thanks. I like to try and avoid reposting stuff so apologies for that. The ABC news article was linked in blog post on Slate today so I figured it was "newer".

It needed to be posted.

 

[LTC8K6]

What Zimmerman would have seen if Martin ran from him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syWJbD1rf0Y

 

[RandFan]

What Zimmerman would have seen if Martin ran from him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syWJbD1rf0Y

Regarding the difference in speed between TM and GZ, sorry to keep asking this but, fact or speculation?

 

[Howie Felterbush]

Regarding the difference in speed between TM and GZ, sorry to keep asking this but, fact or speculation?

Or joke?

 

[Checkmite]

You could possibly just move a little and keep him in sight as he runs. I can't see any evidence that Martin and Zimmerman were running.

Zimmerman hasn't a prayer of catching Martin, and he would know that instantly.

If Martin ran from Zimmerman, we wouldn't be discussing his death, imo.

Then Zimmerman lied point-blank to the police during his phone call when he told the dispatcher - twice - that the "suspect" ran; and absolutely nothing Zimmerman says about the incident is credible.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The only contradiction I am aware of in the those three items is the girlfriends account of the words exchanged and GZ account of the words exchanged.

What evidence are you referring to ?

I made a map here, it may be helpful regarding the location. If you think it's incorrect, please speak up.

You're griping about Alex not knowing the past discussion/news and here you are asking me to repeat what has been thoroughly outlined.

Just sayin...


GZ parks, note the location on the inner curve of Twin Tree. He pursues TM while on foot and on the phone to 911. GZ says he's lost sight of TM somewhere during this time.

It's a very short distance from the street to where the sidewalk turns and becomes a straight shot between 2 rows of condos, with nothing to block one's view.

Given where the shooting occurred, the encounter, no matter who hit who first happened on the straight part of the sidewalk with an unobstructed view.

How is it possible that Z turned around and was headed back to his SUV and TM surprised GZ from behind?

And why does it make sense to anyone that TM would have chased after GZ if GZ had turned around and was retreating? Supposedly that makes sense but not the idea GZ overzealously tried to detain TM. At a minimum GZ had to have come up very close to TM which would have been a concern to anyone.

There is no evidence GZ had turned around and was returning to his truck. The way I see it, telling this lie incriminates GZ.

 

[LTC8K6]

Or joke?

This board has really gone downhill in some areas.

Maybe I'm getting too old for JREF?

 

[LTC8K6]

Then Zimmerman lied point-blank to the police during his phone call when he told the dispatcher - twice - that the "suspect" ran; and absolutely nothing Zimmerman says about the incident is credible.

There's a difference between a little running to try and hide, and running to get away out of fear.

I see no conflict with Martin initially running to hide or get out of sight, versus running to get away. Running all out to get home and to safety.

If he'd run to get away, I have no doubt that he'd have gotten away.

 

[LTC8K6]

You're griping about Alex not knowing the past discussion/news and here you are asking me to repeat what has been thoroughly outlined.

Just sayin...


GZ parks, note the location on the inner curve of Twin Tree. He pursues TM while on foot and on the phone to 911. GZ says he's lost sight of TM somewhere during this time.

It's a very short distance from the street to where the sidewalk turns and becomes a straight shot between 2 rows of condos, with nothing to block one's view.

Given where the shooting occurred, the encounter, no matter who hit who first happened on the straight part of the sidewalk with an unobstructed view.

How is it possible that Z turned around and was headed back to his SUV and TM surprised GZ from behind?

And why does it make sense to anyone that TM would have chased after GZ if GZ had turned around and was retreating? Supposedly that makes sense but not the idea GZ overzealously tried to detain TM. At a minimum GZ had to have come up very close to TM which would have been a concern to anyone.

There is no evidence GZ had turned around and was returning to his truck. The way I see it, telling this lie incriminates GZ.

Hey, maybe that's why the initial police report lists manslaughter, 782.11, as Zimmerman's offense?