Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[332nd]

Speculation. Why would you reply that way to speculation?

Because your speculation doesn't make sense.

Are you now going to claim that my position is that Martin had drugs on him?

Are you now going to claim I am so you can set up a Strawman?

Give the police time.

they've had about a month.

 

[varwoche]

Where'd he come from?

You beat me to the draw. Two people correcting a mistake that was fixed within 2 mnutes -- an active thread indeed.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

George Zimmerman pushed Trayvon Martin?

http://www.theatlantic.com/national...-was-looking-for-trouble-and-found-it/254815/

Update 5:20 p.m. We've just learned from the Sanford Police that there is evidently a typo on the first page of the neighborhood watch calls report they provided. The date range of Zimmerman's calls, they say, evidently is 2001-2012, not 2011-2012, which means his 46 calls came over a 10- to 11-year period -- roughly four calls per year

I contend that this is more poor reporting.

Here are the calls:
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html
2004 is not a typo. Where are the 2001 calls referenced ?

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Because it is not part of police policy to discuss cases?

You mean the police always refuse to speak with the news media about cases? That's just not true.

In this case, police have spoken to the media* as has the prosecutor (Angela Corey).

*Indeed, the police chief temporarily stepped down from his position over this case (he made a statement early on that there was no reason to doubt Zimmerman's account of the incident as a case of self defense).

 

[Puppycow]

How did a 28-year-old man get his ass kicked by a 17-year-old boy, and why did he need to resort to shooting him to defend himself?

 

[Moss]

I keep on rereading these two paragraphs and wonder about the spin in them

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

Sun Sentinel
The first paragraph presents it as matter of fact, the second goes back on it? Or am I just picky?

 

[WildCat]

Congrats of sorts to Wildcat and you for shifting the burden as if Zimmerman's guilt needs to be proven in order for him to be prosecuted.

There is a standard that has to be met prior to prosecution.

And even now we have but a small portion of the facts. The police, DA, and now other agencies state and federal are going through all the facts, not just the ones reported by the news media.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

Sure, if Zimmerman threatened him.

So following someone is NOT threatening behavior but simply being black and wearing a hoodie IS threatening behavior?


_____
ETA: And if the stand-your-ground law leads to the legal position that virtually any violence can be justified as being in self-defense such that incidents like this one are deemed to be nobody's fault just the kind of thing that happens, then I think we should seriously reconsider that law. If it encourages unnecessary violence based on misperception of non-threatening behavior as threatening, then it's a bad law.

 

[332nd]

Because it hasn't been released?

Not good enough.

 

[WildCat]

It's phones I tell ya', phones.

Blanking phones, they always get in the way.

Actually the "these [butt]holes always get away" part precede the disputed statement, and was not part of that statement.

 

[WildCat]

The 911 calls released to the press only have one male witness. He indicates that the shooting happened in his back yard. Do you believe this caller is John?

IIRC "John" came in the house and told his sister to call 911, which she did.

 

[332nd]

Because it is not part of police policy to discuss cases?

Well, they were already discussing it so I don't see the point of holding back details of Zimmerman's injuries.

 

[WildCat]

You mean the police always refuse to speak with the news media about cases? That's just not true.

In this case, police have spoken to the media* as has the prosecutor (Angela Corey).

*Indeed, the police chief temporarily stepped down from his position over this case (he made a statement early on that there was no reason to doubt Zimmerman's account of the incident as a case of self defense).

When do they ever release all the details of an ongoing investigation?

 

[Brattus]

I'm certain that Zimmerman wasn't cruising for suspicious persons in his truck, saw Martin and, gun in hand, went tearing after him with the intent to shoot him dead for the crime of being a black person wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.

Well that is what white people are supposed to say no doubt.

It is a well known fact that all white people hate and want to kill all black people.
All white people in the United States secretly communicate with one another about how to kill or otherwise cause harm to all black people.

Another fact is that 911 is for white people only. Law enforcement is controlled by and for use of white people to kill or cause harm to black people. Everyone knows this.

Black people have never committed a crime on or had a bad thought about a single white person ever.
If a black person ever were to commit a crime against a white person then that white person needs to just shut up and take it because the black persons great great great great great grand uncle was a slave.

Also why stop at using a 3 or 4 year old photo of a 17 year old?
Why not break out the baby pictures?
The headlines could read."White killer murders little black baby holding candy"
If everything is as the media is selling it then why spin it or otherwise whitewash it at all?

 

[Kestrel]

Update 5:20 p.m. We've just learned from the Sanford Police that there is evidently a typo on the first page of the neighborhood watch calls report they provided. The date range of Zimmerman's calls, they say, evidently is 2001-2012, not 2011-2012, which means his 46 calls came over a 10- to 11-year period -- roughly four calls per year

I contend that this is more poor reporting.

Here are the calls:
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/327330-george-zimmerrman-911-call-history.html
2004 is not a type. Where are the 2001 calls referenced ?

There are none. George made 4 calls in 2004, 4 calls in 2005, 1 call in 2006, 4 calls in 2007, 12 calls in 2009, 9 calls in 2010, 8 calls in 2011 and 4 calls in 2012.

 

[WildCat]

How did a 28-year-old man get his ass kicked by a 17-year-old boy, and why did he need to resort to shooting him to defend himself?

That 17 year old was 6'3" tall, not a little kid.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, they were already discussing it so I don't see the point of holding back details of Zimmerman's injuries.

Zimmerman's medical records are protected.

However, I agree with the gist of your post.

 

[crimresearch]

Not completely irrelevant. If Martin was suspended for some kind of violence, that goes toward the completely speculative theory that he might have instigated a violent confrontation with Zimmerman.

Which still would not justify the use of deadly force in response to merely getting punched in the nose.

 

[LTC8K6]

There are none. George made 4 calls in 2004, 4 calls in 2005, 1 call in 2006, 4 calls in 2007, 12 calls in 2009, 9 calls in 2010, 8 calls in 2011 and 4 calls in 2012.

Yes, I think you have it right.

The original typo was 2011-2012 instead of 2004-2012.

Thus the original reports of that many calls since 2011.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I expect this to be hashed out when(?) Zimmerman is prosecuted. And while it may be interesting to speculate, it doesn't change the basic notion that the agreed upon facts demand that Zimmerman be tried.

Amen!

Congrats of sorts to Wildcat and you for shifting the burden as if Zimmerman's guilt needs to be proven in order for him to be prosecuted.

Not really. As I noted earlier, self-defense is an affirmative defense: it requires the defendant to prove certain things.

Basically the defendant is stipulating that he did the shooting, so the prosecutor's prima facia case for some crime is already established, unless or until the defendant can substantiate his self-defense assertion. If the defendant proffers evidence of the elements of self-defense (which requirements may be significantly weakened by the stand-your-ground law), all the prosecutor has to do is refute that evidence.