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12 rules for heathens

Pixel42

Schrödinger's cat
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/25/atheists-please-read-heathen-manifesto

In recent years, we atheists have become more confident and outspoken in articulating and defending our godlessness in the public square. Much has been gained by this. There is now wider awareness of the reasonableness of a naturalist world view, and some of the unjustified deference to religion has been removed, exposing them to much needed critical scrutiny.

Unfortunately, however, in a culture that tends to focus on the widest distinctions, the most extreme positions and the most strident advocates, the "moderate middle" has been sidelined by this debate. There is a perception of unbridgeable polarisation, and a sense that the debates have sunk into a stale impasse, with the same tired old arguments being rehearsed time and again by protagonists who are getting more and more entrenched.

It is time, therefore, for those of us who are tired of the status quo to try to shift the focus of our public discussions of atheism into areas where more progress and genuine dialogue is possible. To achieve this, we need to rethink what atheism stands for and how to present it. The so-called "new atheism" may have put us on the map, but in the public imagination it amounts to little more than a caricature of Richard Dawkins, which is not an accurate representation of the terrain many of us occupy. We now need something else.

This manifesto is an attempt to point towards the next phase of atheism's involvement in public discourse. It is not a list of doctrines that people are asked to sign up to but a set of suggestions to provide a focus for debate and discussion. Nor is it an attempt to accurately describe what all atheists have in common. Rather it is an attempt to prescribe what the best form of atheism should be like.

I've read the rules and agree almost entirely with all of them. I also like the idea of reclaiming the word heathen (I've never liked 'bright') so from now on that's how I'll be describing myself.
 
Umm... heathen is another word for pagan, which refers to "non-Abrahamic, indigenous polytheistic religious traditions". By definition a heathen is not an atheist, regardless of how the author of that article chooses to define it.

As for reclaiming the name heathen for use in modern times, Germanic neopaganism has already beaten us to it.
 
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Or you could take up herding cats, I would resist Athiest labels. Live and let live just don't pass laws that try to make me suck from your koolaid.:D
 
Heathen, a word created by christian ideals and designed to denigrate non christians.
Are you sure that accepting that label is not just playing right into their hands,
Søren Kierkegaard said:
Once you label me you negate me

whats wrong with "secular" - "living in the world, not belonging to a religious order,"
its in daily usage already
;)
 
The language strongly implies that it is still "atheists vs society", i.e. that atheists are still not part of the larger mainstream society. As long as that is so, I am not even going to think about the alleged issue.
 
10 Religion is often our friend said:
We believe in not being tone-deaf to religion and to understand it in the most charitable way possible.

uh ... no!

No, the most charitable way in which religion could possibly be understood is retarded. It means to accept each and every fallacy that lies at the base of what is often called "moderate religion".

So we support religions when they work to promote values we share,

Yes. I'll keep that in mind as soon as I come across a rleigion that shares my value of not beleiving any old ******** a priest happens to read from an old book, but instead to rely on the available evidence ...

including those of social justice and compassion. We are respectful and sympathetic to the religious when they arrive at their different conclusions on the basis of the same commitment to sincere, rational, undogmatic inquiry as us,

This is satire, right?

without in any way denying that we believe them to be false and misguided.

So .. we support something we consider false and misguided?


We are also sympathetic to religion when its effects are more benign than malign. We appreciate that commitment to truth is but one value and that a commitment to compassion and kindness to others is also of supreme importance.

No. Not in lieu of a comittment to truth.

We are not prepared to insist that it is indubitably better to live guided by such values allied with false beliefs than it is to live without such values but also without false belief.

I need more time to parse this ...
 
I need more time to parse this ...

Roughly translated I think it means:

If it comes to a choice between values and false belief or no values and no false belief, we're not saying that one is necessarily better than the others.​

(Of course, I don't see why you would ever need false belief to hold values.)
 
Thankfully i just don't believe in god, unlike religious morons such as these "heathens".
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/25/atheists-please-read-heathen-manifesto



I've read the rules and agree almost entirely with all of them. I also like the idea of reclaiming the word heathen (I've never liked 'bright') so from now on that's how I'll be describing myself.

Personally, I prefer the word "godless". It does exactly what it says on the tin.

I'm not interested in reading any manifestos for how I should comport myself. That's the whole point of being godless.
 
Umm... heathen is another word for pagan, which refers to "non-Abrahamic, indigenous polytheistic religious traditions". By definition a heathen is not an atheist, regardless of how the author of that article chooses to define it.

That's one definition. It can mean just not a member of a religion.

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heathen?q=heathen

heathen

Pronunciation: /ˈhiːð(ə)n/
noun
chiefly derogatory

1. a person who does not belong to a widely held religion (especially one who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim) as regarded by those who do: my brother and I were raised, as my grandma puts it, as heathens (as plural noun the heathen) a chance of salvation for the heathen
2 a follower of a polytheistic religion; a pagan.
3 informal a person regarded as lacking culture or moral principles: eat your chips, you little heathen!
 
Roughly translated I think it means:
If it comes to a choice between values and false belief or no values and no false belief, we're not saying that one is necessarily better than the others.​
(Of course, I don't see why you would ever need false belief to hold values.)

That doesn't seem to be a realistic choice - but what good are my values if I have no clue or indication if the beliefs I ase them on are true?
 
Heathen, a word created by christian ideals and designed to denigrate non christians.
Are you sure that accepting that label is not just playing right into their hands,

Surely that's the idea behind reclaiming it, although I personally can't imagine anyone actually being offended by the term.

whats wrong with "secular" - "living in the world, not belonging to a religious order,"
its in daily usage already
;)

What's wrong with "atheist"?
 
What's wrong with "atheist"?

People don't like it.

And surely they just don't like the sound of it, and renaming the thing will magicially make all rejections dissapear...

(I think the ideas of taking over perjorative terms has some merit - but we are laready doing that with "baby eaters" and the like...)
 
I'm not interested in reading any manifestos for how I should comport myself. That's the whole point of being godless.

I'm not sure that atheism has any kind of point, but I agree with you about not subscribing to any particular set of views or values. I see that kind of thing the same way I see joining an atheist organisation - kind of pointless.
 
Then they're silly. It's what most accurately describes my views, so it's the label I'll use.

I know and I agree.

That said, though, I have used "godless heathen" in a jokey manner throughout my life.

So have I. I will use the label "atheist" because that is what I am, and if someone doesn't like what it means or what they think it means that is primarily their problem.
 
Yeah, the part about religion being my friend also tripped my suspension of disbelief.

Yes, we should approve of good stuff (e.g., charity) done by religious people, but I don't see how that suddenly makes religion my friend. I mean, I equally approve of Al Capone's running soup kitchens even if it was essentially a PR move by a gangster, but that doesn't make racketeering my friend.

ETA: in fact, I think it's even insulting to credit religion there, as it basically gives a nod to the insulting stereotype that those people wouldn't give a screw about their fellow man, if it weren't religion to tell them to.
 
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Then they're silly. It's what most accurately describes my views, so it's the label I'll use.
.

even though its derived from the word "Theist"
If I was an atheist I would use "Godless", because when the religious use that word they always make it seem like an attack, so it would work against them trying to appear friendly and justify a reaction of militant godlessness just that little bit more
:D
 

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