Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[leftysergeant]

The kid went for the gun and they struggled for it, George ended up shooting the kid and saving his own life. All these people on yahoo saying that he should be in jail when they don't even know what happened. George is the brother-in-law of one of our good family friends, works with my parents, and is one of the nicest most gentle people you will ever meet.

Blake lies his ass off a lot. Nice guys don't get told to go to anger management treatment to deferr prosecution for domestic violence.

Z was an idiot for not retreating when Martin confronted him.

 

[WildCat]

The timing of when the phone call was cut off and the police arrived as well as the timing of the shot on the 911 tape suggests Z was very close when Trayvon asked him why Z was following him.

This is interesting, the police chief issues an FAQ on the case:

Oh the tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.

How is that evidence of deception? Again, it says nothing about how the gap was closed, and neither of us know what Zimmerman's full statement to police was.

 

[Checkmite]

There was no fight with officers. He pushed one officer when he and some friends got in a altercation in a bar. The charges were dismissed.

Again, it is my understanding that the charges were not dismissed, but reduced to simple battery.

 

[Checkmite]

Following someone is not evidence of intent to detain, it's merely evidence of intent to keep them in sight.

Following someone with a weapon indicates more than an intent to keep a person "in sight".

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

How is that evidence of deception? Again, it says nothing about how the gap was closed, and neither of us know what Zimmerman's full statement to police was.

You're kidding, right?

How does "lost sight of him and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer" fit with any of the rest of the evidence?

It doesn't fit with the phone call which the timing of is recorded and the shot time recorded on the 911 tape. It doesn't fit with the layout of the condo complex. Have you seen the father's walkthrough of the crime scene? It is a single sidewalk that goes a good block or more, straight shot, in between two solid rows of condos on both sides, no space between the condos, no more than about 30 or so feet from each building row on each side to the sidewalk. It is impossible to lose sight of someone there. IMPOSSIBLE!

Z's own words incriminate him.

 

[WildCat]

Again, it is my understanding that the charges were not dismissed, but reduced to simple battery.

Every report I've seen says they were dismissed.

In July 2005, Zimmerman, then 21, was at a bar near the University of Central Florida when a friend was arrested by state alcohol agents on suspicion of serving underage drinkers, according to an arrest report in the Sentinel. Zimmerman became profane and pushed away an agent who tried to escort him, the report said. Authorities said he was arrested after a short struggle. Charged with resisting arrest without violence, he avoided conviction by entering a pretrial-diversion program, something common for first-time offenders.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-20120323,0,6326075.story

This is hardly the crime of the century, or evidence that he's a violent person.

 

[leftysergeant]

How is that evidence of deception? Again, it says nothing about how the gap was closed, and neither of us know what Zimmerman's full statement to police was.

We know that when the slob interdicted Martin, he did not retreat. He stood his grounnd to make sure Martin could not retreat. He chased the dude down. Fry him.

 

[WildCat]

Following someone with a weapon indicates more than an intent to keep a person "in sight".

It does? What do you think it shows?

 

[WildCat]

You're kidding, right?

How does "lost sight of him and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer" fit with any of the rest of the evidence?

It doesn't fit with the phone call which the timing of is recorded and the shot time recorded on the 911 tape. It doesn't fit with the layout of the condo complex. Have you seen the father's walkthrough of the crime scene? It is a single sidewalk that goes a good block or more, straight shot, in between two solid rows of condos on both sides, no space between the condos, no more than about 30 or so feet from each building row on each side to the sidewalk. It is impossible to lose sight of someone there. IMPOSSIBLE!

Z's own words incriminate him.

How do you know Martin didn't approach Zimmerman from behind and confront him? Or that they didn't just end up in the same place by chance after Zimmerman lost sight of him?

You can't possibly know if there are inconsistensies in the story, because you don't even know what the story is. You only have bits and pieces.

 

[WildCat]

We know that when the slob interdicted Martin, he did not retreat. He stood his grounnd to make sure Martin could not retreat. He chased the dude down. Fry him.

The prosecution, unlike you, can't just make stuff up at the trial.

 

[Checkmite]

It does? What do you think it shows?

Anticipation of conflict, meaning that Zimmerman must've intended to at least get a lot closer than merely necessary to "keep him in sight".

 

[Checkmite]

Every report I've seen says they were dismissed.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-20120323,0,6326075.story

This is hardly the crime of the century, or evidence that he's a violent person.

"Avoided conviction by attending a pretrial diversion program". When people say this person has a history of violence and cite a struggle with police for which he was arrested and charged, it really is intellectually dishonest to counter with "the charges were dismissed", as if he was completely innocent and this incident is therefore not evidence of past confrontational acts. Obviously the courts considered him guilty, which is why they sent him to a program for first-time offenders. Because he was an offender, which is the point of bringing up his past - that he has a history.

 

[leftysergeant]

The prosecution, unlike you, can't just make stuff up at the trial.

At some point, we have Z describing Martin as "looking like he is on drugs." He was either making stuff up or commenting on how Martin looked when he realized that a crazy dirtbag was following him. He had to be following at very close range to see that.

 

[ehcks]

You're kidding, right?

How does "lost sight of him and was returning to his truck to meet the police officer" fit with any of the rest of the evidence?

It doesn't fit with the phone call which the timing of is recorded and the shot time recorded on the 911 tape. It doesn't fit with the layout of the condo complex. Have you seen the father's walkthrough of the crime scene? It is a single sidewalk that goes a good block or more, straight shot, in between two solid rows of condos on both sides, no space between the condos, no more than about 30 or so feet from each building row on each side to the sidewalk. It is impossible to lose sight of someone there. IMPOSSIBLE!

Z's own words incriminate him.

And according to the map of the area, Martin's body was as far away from any street as it could possibly have been and still be in that neighborhood. No one was going back to any truck.

 

[fuelair]

It is evidence in this case. It's more likely Z would have followed at a greater distance if he had no intention of stopping Trayvon.

You continue to cherry pick while complaining about others doing the same. It's not objective, it's hypocritical.

Re the witnesses, Anderson Cooper interviewed them.If you go to check on a downed person you do not straddle them.

It's also more credible than claiming who was hitting who since by that time it is unmistakeable which guy is which.

I want to know if Trayvon was shot n the back. The autopsy remains a key piece of missing information here.

If I am the shooter, and I am not certain the shootee is dead or fully incapacitated, I might well straddle, put weapon to their head and tell them to move their hands out to where they are fully visible. If there is motion (especially offensive motion) without hands coming out, cooty grass time. (If combat is fair, it is being done very incorrectly.)
Based on the so-far available info, I am fairly sure it was not self-defense per the law. I suspect it was hot-head. But I was not there, I do not know. Neither was Sharpton or any others who have fully made up their minds on this.

 

[fuelair]

Re the gun issues we've been discussing:Is this credible? I'm just curious.


Also note the retractions at the end re Trayvon being suspended from school. People want to paint the kids as bad. There still is no evidence of that yet the discussion continues without said evidence.

I was going to say the hand around thing was possible but not familiar with the specific weapon.BUT Massad Ayoob is extremely knowledgeable on weapons, I know how to do that and stop the weapon from firing much less recycling with certain pistols SO I now say yes for sure it could happen that way...

 

[WildCat]

Anticipation of conflict, meaning that Zimmerman must've intended to at least get a lot closer than merely necessary to "keep him in sight".

Or it just means Zimmerman had a CCL and was wearing his gun at the time.

"Avoided conviction by attending a pretrial diversion program". When people say this person has a history of violence and cite a struggle with police for which he was arrested and charged, it really is intellectually dishonest to counter with "the charges were dismissed", as if he was completely innocent and this incident is therefore not evidence of past confrontational acts. Obviously the courts considered him guilty, which is why they sent him to a program for first-time offenders. Because he was an offender, which is the point of bringing up his past - that he has a history.

The charge was "resisting arrest without violence". Something you see all the time wrt demonstrations all over the country, yet I doubt you get so outraged over those identical incidents.

 

[WildCat]

At some point, we have Z describing Martin as "looking like he is on drugs." He was either making stuff up or commenting on how Martin looked when he realized that a crazy dirtbag was following him. He had to be following at very close range to see that.

Yep, you and Zimmerman are a lot alike.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Skeptic Ginger

If you could address this post about the the witness saying Martin was on top of Zimmerman, and this post about Mary Cutcher and the fact she didn't actually see what happened prior to the gunshot, I would appreciate it.

You could also address the issue of the football picture since you made some claims about that as well.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

How do you know Martin didn't approach Zimmerman from behind and confront him? Or that they didn't just end up in the same place by chance after Zimmerman lost sight of him?

You can't possibly know if there are inconsistensies in the story, because you don't even know what the story is. You only have bits and pieces.

It's impossible that Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon. Have you seen the crime scene?

You had some reasonable points at first. But now you are digging in when you should be re-evaluating.