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Blacks are under Attack!

I'm Scottish through and through..... do you know how bad we were treated by the British over the centuries? I want my money.
 
Caper said:
I'm Scottish through and through..... do you know how bad we were treated by the British over the centuries? I want my money.
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Thankfully modern Britain is far more liberal nowadays, and accepting of cross-dressers.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
I didn't revise anything.
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Hang on, you said:

SoT said:
My ancestors were prohibited from owning slaves by their religion.
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Show me this Mormon prohibition. I've shown you where Young declared that it was a benefit to whites that they could have blacks as servants, right? What you revised is the idea that Mormons were opposed to slavery.

The mormons fleeing attempted extermination did not drag slave populations with them to Utah.
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This is moving the goal posts. There could have been a prohibition that I am unaware of. If so then I apologize, but I resent the idea that the Mormon precept was anti-slavery in general. It was not.

Should whites who deserve reparations be given them?
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Did the harm caused to Mormons in the past disadvantage them long term? If we look can we see a legacy of economical and social disparity?
 
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This seems like a self perpetuating argument. Jackson is placing the blame on racism for these detriments, when all of these detriments apply to the poor and lower class, not just minorities. Minorities are poor for a number of reasons, it's more complicated than just being because of racism, though surely that was a large contributing factor which led to so many minorities being poor in the first place. But things that came about due to the racism of yesterday are not indicative of the same level of racism today.

For example, a man who was injured in a racist hate crime 50 years ago that still suffers from pain due to residual injury today cannot be said to still be suffering because people are still racist today.
 
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eerok said:
As a somewhat personal aside, I find it interesting that you went from a right wing postion to one that would allow you to post what you just did. An old, lighthearted saying of mine: the left wing is where one values people more than things. (It's actually more pointed than lighthearted.) In any case, when you care less for preserving privilege than enforcing fairness, you are more in tune with improving society in general.

I admit that I'm probably biased according to how I was raised, but I think that racism is the stupidest waste of human potential ever devised.
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Yeah, and the JREF forum has really made me focus on views from different perspectives. I'm under no illusions that I'm free of bias simply because I have a different perspective. However, it's helpful to me that I can understand and take on my past perceptions.

This is unassailable, and in fact shapes the bottom line about any discussion related to race. There is no such thing as race except culturally (and consequently, subjectively). If there's a problem with American blacks, then it's a problem that America has created. There's no objective reason to conclude that blacks wouldn't rise to the top if they weren't beat down.
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Exactly. This is what hit me solidly when I altered my perceptions. We build these walls in our minds where we don't allow certain ideas to penetrate too deeply. The argument about personal responsibility is a powerful one because it is possessed of truth. Anyone who has overcome an addiction or followed someone who has will understand fundamentally the importance of personal responsibility. But that's not the whole story. It takes a willingness to look objectively at the facts. If one does then one cannot ignore environmental factors and using personal responsibility as an excuse not to help is simply ad hoc rationalization.

Hey, one could even be president.
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:)
 
Brainster said:
What? Cite?
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American Anthropological Association Statement on "Race"

American Anthropological Association said:
Evidence from the analysis of genetics (e.g., DNA) indicates that most physical variation, about 94%, lies within so-called racial groups. Conventional geographic "racial" groupings differ from one another only in about 6% of their genes. This means that there is greater variation within "racial" groups than between them.
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Race has little meaning from a genetic view point.

There are quite a few inherent differences between blacks and whites.
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What? Cite?
 
Caper said:
Apparently you've never watched a 100m Olympic sprint final.
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Apparently you don't understand culture and statistical outliers within sub groups due to genetic bottle necks. Moving the normative distribution at the time scales we are talking about through natural selection doesn't significantly alter the underlying genetics. When the bottle neck is removed populations seek an equilibrium. That's a fact. And you have not accounted for culture in your equation which is a huge mistake (see sociobiology).

More importantly, these difference you put so much stock into cannot account for the disparity. Black children raised in affluent neighborhoods are no less likely to succeed than white children raised in affluent neighborhoods.
 
Caper said:
I'm Scottish through and through..... do you know how bad we were treated by the British over the centuries? I want my money.
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Silly straw man aside, as a group do the Scottish suffer long term affects of the the treatment? Can we identify a disparity? If so then there should be programs to address the inequality.
 
ravdin said:
A better answer. There are lots of disadvantaged Americans of every color, and also lots of privileged Americans of every color. I'm not convinced that we can "fix" the inequalities simply by expropriating resources from one group and handing them to another, but it can't be simply about ethnicity.
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A.) Who is making that argument? B.) I'm more than happy to include programs to help all disadvantaged people.
 
RandFan said:
Apparently you don't understand culture and statistical outliers within sub groups due to genetic bottle necks. Moving the normative distribution at the time scales we are talking about through natural selection doesn't significantly alter the underlying genetics. When the bottle neck is removed populations seek an equilibrium. That's a fact. And you have not accounted for culture in your equation which is a huge mistake (see sociobiology).

More importantly, these difference you put so much stock into cannot account for the disparity. Black children raised in affluent neighborhoods are no less likely to succeed than white children raised in affluent neighborhoods.
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When am I going to see a white guy win the 100m sprint?
 
Caper said:
When am I going to see a white guy win the 100m sprint?
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Which proves what exactly? Did you bother to even read what I wrote? I concede increased frequency of some alleles due to geographical bottle necks. That doesn't prove that there is any statistically significant genetic variation that would account for the disparity. Further any conclusion that might follow from your point is falsified by the fact that black children raised in affluence are just as likely to succeed as whites.

And you still have not accounted for culture. Your point is fatuous. But I'll bet the facts will not have any affect on you. I can concede your premises and you can only ignore mine while you argue ad nauseam a silly point. Much like the creationist who keeps asking why there are still monkeys. Trust me it doesn't help your credibility any.
 
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RandFan said:
That doesn't prove that there is any statistically significant genetic variation that would account for the disparity. Further any conclusion that might follow from your point is falsified by the fact that black children raised in affluence are just as likely to succeed as whites.
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Especially in the 100m or in a game of hoops.
 
psionl0 said:
I don't know if more needs to be done to equalize the circumstances that blacks and non-blacks are born into. I would suggest however, that any such measures should be needs based and not race based. The last thing we need is a wealthy individual getting a housing subsidy just because of the colour of his skin.
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Indeed. It would be better to have a debate on whether more should be spent on households in poverty, or where neither parent went to college, etc. To make it about race is divisive and will see some money go to those who don't need it.
 
Mumbles said:
Jim Crow? Segregation? College discrimination? Sundown Towns? Redlining? Lynch mobs? Race riots? Anything jogging your memory?

I mean, we're discussing things that happened, at most, 50 years ago, and often far more recently than that, and there are plenty of people still alive that were disadvantaged by it. The whole slavery thing is handwaving.
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Yes, those are the things affirmative action is intended to rectify.

"Reparations" is a payment for slavery, and there are no living former slaves or slavemansters. During Reconstruction there was the proposal to give former slaves 40 acres and a mule as reparation, but unfortunately it never came to fruition. And now the time for reparations is long since gone.
 
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Mumbles said:
Second, you're forgetting that black people in the US have spent a long time paying into the US system, and have had their wealth siphoned off to aid white people. If this is wrong, then the wealth should be given back. if it's okay, then you can't claim umbrage with reparations anyway.
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By what legal theory are decendants of victims entitled to payments from decendants of perpetrators?
 
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Mumbles said:
Jim Crow? Segregation? College discrimination? Sundown Towns? Redlining? Lynch mobs? Race riots? Anything jogging your memory?

I mean, we're discussing things that happened, at most, 50 years ago, and often far more recently than that, and there are plenty of people still alive that were disadvantaged by it. The whole slavery thing is handwaving.
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This^^^ I guess that for some it's easier to pretend that there is no lasting legacy of racism. Obama ended it all. Sure.
 
RandFan said:
This^^^ I guess that for some it's easier to pretend that there is no lasting legacy of racism. Obama ended it all. Sure.
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so who exactly is claiming that all racism and all effects of racism ended when obama was elected?
 
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