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Blacks are under Attack!

WildCat said:
That's the rationale behind affirmative action, not reparations.

Reparations are a payment to compensate for slavery. And the time for that was long ago, its ridiculous for the decendants of Group A to demand payment from decendants of Group B for the crimes of their ancestors. It would be like me demanding payment from France over the loss of my great grandfather's property after France evicted ethnic Germans from Alcase-Lorraine after WWI. There are no living former slaves, nor living former slavemasters.
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Jim Crow? Segregation? College discrimination? Sundown Towns? Redlining? Lynch mobs? Race riots? Anything jogging your memory?

I mean, we're discussing things that happened, at most, 50 years ago, and often far more recently than that, and there are plenty of people still alive that were disadvantaged by it. The whole slavery thing is handwaving.
 
ravdin said:
This raises the question of who owes what to whom, which isn't at all straightforward to answer. We can't make that decision just on skin tone. By your logic President Obama should pay reparations rather than receive them, as his mother's family is white and his father's African ancestors were not brought here in slavery. Millions of Americans have mixed black and white ancestry, millions more fall under neither category, and millions more white and black Americans are immigrants or descendants of more recent arrivals who had nothing to do with slavery.
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Why would Obama pay anything? The claim here is against *governments*, not against random people walking around. And before you even say it, there are two answers. First, every company's clients will likely pay more if the company get sued. But so what? If I pay for Sony products, and they have to raise their prices because of some disastrous flaw in a product, then that's too bad for me, the end.

Second, you're forgetting that black people in the US have spent a long time paying into the US system, and have had their wealth siphoned off to aid white people. If this is wrong, then the wealth should be given back. if it's okay, then you can't claim umbrage with reparations anyway.
 
RandFan said:
Oh please, spare me. Your treacle makes me seriously want to throw up.
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Playing Santorum to my Kennedy, RF?

I know you are a decent human being SoT but let's not engage in historical revisionism.
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I didn't revise anything. The mormons fleeing attempted extermination did not drag slave populations with them to Utah.

But this ignores my point. Should whites who deserve reparations be given them?
 
RandFan said:
We are all human beings. Nothing more. The question is simple, it isn't who and whom. It's who suffers as a result. If dark skinned humans are disadvantaged then by god do something to help them. It will not resolve all inequities. We should just do what we can to bring about eauility. That's all. No need for score cards and to determine if a particular dark skinned American is actually descended from a slave. That's simply idiotic and bureaucratic BS IMO. There is no perfect ledger. There is only inequality. Fix it as best we can. That's all.
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A better answer. There are lots of disadvantaged Americans of every color, and also lots of privileged Americans of every color. I'm not convinced that we can "fix" the inequalities simply by expropriating resources from one group and handing them to another, but it can't be simply about ethnicity.
 
RandFan said:
We are all human beings. Nothing more. The question is simple, it isn't who and whom. It's who suffers as a result. If dark skinned humans are disadvantaged then by god do something to help them. It will not resolve all inequities. We should just do what we can to bring about eauility. That's all. No need for score cards and to determine if a particular dark skinned American is actually descended from a slave. That's simply idiotic and bureaucratic BS IMO. There is no perfect ledger. There is only inequality. Fix it as best we can. That's all.
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As a somewhat personal aside, I find it interesting that you went from a right wing postion to one that would allow you to post what you just did. An old, lighthearted saying of mine: the left wing is where one values people more than things. (It's actually more pointed than lighthearted.) In any case, when you care less for preserving privilege than enforcing fairness, you are more in tune with improving society in general.

I admit that I'm probably biased according to how I was raised, but I think that racism is the stupidest waste of human potential ever devised.

But this is really what I wanted to remark on:

RandFan said:
Since all scientific evidence demonstrates that there are no inherent difference between blacks and whites, then I say that the differences are in some significant degree environmental. That's not dismiss personal responsibility. But it's profoundly ignorant, or malicious, or both, to dismiss historic environmental factors.
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This is unassailable, and in fact shapes the bottom line about any discussion related to race. There is no such thing as race except culturally (and consequently, subjectively). If there's a problem with American blacks, then it's a problem that America has created. There's no objective reason to conclude that blacks wouldn't rise to the top if they weren't beat down.

Hey, one could even be president.
 
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flabio said:
Meh to this thread. The average white man isn't fairing much better.
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If certain people in a certain poverty-stricken part of the country would stop voting for politicians who do not give a rat's about improiving life for working people just because thoise corporate whores keep the black folk from gettin' all uppity, maybe we would have universal health care and banking laws that make it a little easier for working white people to actually keep up their mortgage payments.

"The only way to keep a man down is to get down on the ground with him."
 
leftysergeant said:
If certain people in a certain poverty-stricken part of the country would stop voting for politicians who do not give a rat's about improiving life for working people just because thoise corporate whores keep the black folk from gettin' all uppity, maybe we would have universal health care and banking laws that make it a little easier for working white people to actually keep up their mortgage payments.

"The only way to keep a man down is to get down on the ground with him."
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Ah, so white poverty is white people's fault; and black poverty is white people's fault.
 
Jekyll's Guest said:
Ah, so white poverty is white people's fault; and black poverty is white people's fault.
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Actually, the fault of the power elite who play one group of working class people off against each other so that the working people do not realize that that elite are playing them all like pawns.
 
eerok said:
It's your fault.
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Guilty as charged.

I mean my ancestors were mostly miners who were worked to death and starved, but I'm sure my great grandad had at least 1 slave to serve him Mint Julips at he fled the potato famine. I mean we're all in the guilt together, right?

Actually, I come from Black-Irish stock, so...
 
Cainkane1 said:
Blacks who dress like that are under attack in their own neighborhoods. I've seen it with my own eyes.
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I recall a similar incident here in Atlanta Ga where an older black man shot and killed a younger black man whose pants were saggy and was wearing a hoodie. Like the unfortunant young man in the news he was not living in the neighborhood and was an outsider that the residents felt was a threat.

Except for the fact that everyone involved was black its pretty much the same story.

Zimmermann was a hero wannabe who wanted to be gung ho so he shot the poor kid. Just like the black man in Atlanta Ga.
 
RandFan said:
Since all scientific evidence demonstrates that there are no inherent difference between blacks and whites, then I say that the differences are in some significant degree environmental. That's not dismiss personal responsibility. But it's profoundly ignorant, or malicious, or both, to dismiss historic environmental factors.
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Apparently you've never watched a 100m Olympic sprint final.
 
It is difficult to rise above the circumstances of your birth. Since blacks have historically had a more disadvantaged past, their birth circumstances today are likely to be worse than those of non-blacks.

However, the discriminatory laws that oppressed blacks in the past no longer exist. Political correctness has almost made uncharitable thoughts about the blacks (or other minorities) illegal.

I don't know if more needs to be done to equalize the circumstances that blacks and non-blacks are born into. I would suggest however, that any such measures should be needs based and not race based. The last thing we need is a wealthy individual getting a housing subsidy just because of the colour of his skin.
 
RandFan said:
Since all scientific evidence demonstrates that there are no inherent difference between blacks and whites....
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What? Cite? There are quite a few inherent differences between blacks and whites.
 
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