Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[LTC8K6]

Another possibility. But if you really feel like you need one in the chamber before you enter the dangerous environment of central Florida's gated communities, wouldn't it be simpler to load a full magazine and cock your weapon before you start your recon mission? If you're worried about a jam, then it the extra round won't help you if you can't feed in the second one.

Well, you'd normally carry it that way if it's safe to do so. I have a single action Beretta that I'd never carry that way, and a double action Beretta that is quite safe carried that way.

The feed problem generally happens when you manually operate the slide, so I don't.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The Kel-tec does not use clips. It uses removeable magazines.

Clips are devices used to fill magazines, generally on guns with fixed internal magazines, or to hold rounds in a revolver's cylinder.,,,,

Clip, magazine it's all the same to some of us.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Dylan is guilty.

I heard he stole a whole slew of blues records from someone early in his career.

 

[ravdin]

I carry mine like that, when I am carrying a semi-auto. (I prefer revolvers for CCW.) Having a live round chambered saves about two seconds from reach-for-a-weapon-to-discharge-weapon. That's time for a punk with a knife to slice-and-dice you.

If you are set upon by a gang, or yourt assailant is firing and maneuvering from cover-to-cover, one round might not be enough.

Generally, the first guy to run out of ammo loses.

Yeah, I've asked a couple of people and I just might have rushed to judgment on carrying one in the chamber plus a full magazine. I'm not a stranger to handguns, but I've never had any reason to carry one around with me either.

If I really thought I needed a piece for neighborhood watch, a revolver makes a lot more sense to me. It won't jam and if you need more than six rounds, you're probably in way over your head anyway.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yeah, I've asked a couple of people and I just might have rushed to judgment on carrying in the chamber. I'm not a stranger to handguns, but I've never had any reason to carry one around with me either.

If I really thought I needed one for neighborhood watch, a revolver makes a lot more sense to me. It won't jam and if you need more than six rounds, you're probably in way over your head anyway.

You can get speed loaders and reload the cylinder just about as fast as inserting a mag.

 

[LTC8K6]

Clip, magazine it's all the same to some of us.

Well I think accuracy matters. We already have an odd claim as one poster noted. Zimmerman could not have fired a round and still have a full magazine.

 

[a_unique_person]

And as I said to lefty, then you have a case where both had the right to excercise self defense because of the tragic circumstances.

The only reason for the tragic circumstances were the actions of one man.

 

[leftysergeant]

My understanding is that once a round is in the chamber of a semi-automatic, you take the safety off and the gun is ready to be fired. There is no need to "cock the gun". After the initial bullet is fired, a second round is automatically chambered, with the spent shell being ejected.

There are double-action and single-action-only semi-auto pistols. Working the slide to load a cartidge cocks the weapon. It may then be placed on "safe" by means of a lever on the weapon, in the case of most single-action weapons, or by de-cocking, using a similar lever. The (usually cheap) weapons like Bryco and Jennings are of this type. I normally carry a Russian IJ-70, which is a double action . After working the slide, you can de-cock it, and it is safe to carry or even drop on the ground. The hammer is blocked. Move the lever to "fire," and you can fire by simply pulling the trigger. It is a long, heavy trigger pull.

Or you can cock the hammer back and reduce trigger pull by well over half. I recommend this because your hande will not shake as much when you are trying to aim. From this poiunt, the slide, responding to the blow back of the cartridge fire, does everything except pull the trigger for you.

 

[geeter]

I don't consider the bullet in the chamber as "extra". But it's just another example of the media putting their little unique twist on the issue, just inflaming an already tragic situation. Why would they keep posting a 3 or 4 year old picture of the victim? They choose not to show a more recent pic of the 17 year old with gold teeth and gang signage.
These little keltec pistols only carry five in the magazine. Having one in the chamber makes six. The design of the actions of these pistols makes them makes them very safe. I am a big proponent of gun safety and after researching these pistols, I wouldn't hesitate to carry one with a round in the chamber.

 

[LTC8K6]

I don't consider the bullet in the chamber as "extra". But it's just another example of the media putting their little unique twist on the issue, just inflaming an already tragic situation. Why would they keep posting a 3 or 4 year old picture of the victim? They choose not to show a more recent pic of the 17 year old with gold teeth and gang signage.
These little keltec pistols only carry five in the magazine. Having one in the chamber makes six. The design of the actions of these pistols makes them makes them very safe. I am a big proponent of gun safety and after researching these pistols, I wouldn't hesitate to carry one with a round in the chamber.

The pf9 is 7+1.

 

[ravdin]

Well I think accuracy matters. We already have an odd claim as one poster noted. Zimmerman could not have fired a round and still have a full magazine.

I suppose it's possible that the magazine was fully loaded if it jammed after he fired the one shot (although supposedly the casing was found nearby). I think it's more likely that you're correct and the magazine was fully loaded minus one round.

 

[Puppycow]

Even Rich Lowry of the National Review thinks he should be charged.

Zimmerman claims Martin attacked him from behind and he fired in self-defense. But while he was on the line with 9-1-1, Zimmerman was the one chasing Martin. At the same time, Martin talked on his cell phone to his girlfriend, complaining of a man watching him. She told him to run away, which he apparently did during the interval Zimmerman was on with 9-1-1. The girlfriend claims she heard Martin say, “What are you following me for?” before the call went dead.

The tape of another 9-1-1 call from a neighbor has yells of “Help” in the background before the gunshot. We may never know what exactly happened in the altercation. We do know this: Through stupendous errors in judgment, Zimmerman brought about an utterly unnecessary confrontation and then — in the most favorable interpretation of the facts for him — shot Martin when he began to lose a fistfight to him.

Florida has a “stand your ground” law that stipulates that someone doesn’t have to retreat and may use deadly force if facing a threat of death or bodily harm. It is one of the reasons that the police didn’t press charges against Zimmerman. But the law is not meant to be a warrant for aggressive vigilantism. It was Martin, chased by a stranger who wasn’t an officer of the law, who had more reason to feel threatened and “stand his ground” than Zimmerman.

 

[tyr_13]

George Zimmerman's Long, Lonely War Against Black Youths Doing Things

He had ninety plus calls to 911 correct? Is this a pattern or cherry picking? It could be that he has a lot of calls just as stupid that don't involve black youths.

And of course if he was really obsessed with the break ins, and the suspects in the break ins were all black youths, it would explain it as well.

It might be evidence of racial motives, but as of yet his reported words to neighbors are better evidence of that.

 

[johnny karate]

And running the background check at the time would have changed what?

You said the police were aware of Zimmerman's background. They weren't. At least not at the time of the incident.

How this would have changed the outcome, I don't know. At the very least it shows the police acted with enough bias to take Zimmerman at his word.

What is in the background check that allows them to detain Zimmerman under FL law in a case where they believe the physical evidence supports a claim of self defense?

What "physical evidence" are you talking about? From what I can tell, the police arrived to find a dead black kid, were told by the white guy who shot him that it was in self-defense, and then released him. Is there some physical evidence I'm not aware of that supports Zimmerman's story?

 

[Noztradamus]

From the same article:

In other words, Zimmerman loaded the gun, racked the slide to put a round in the chamber (reducing the number of bullets in the magazine by one), removed the magazine, put another round in the magazine, then replaced the magazine in the gun. If Zimmerman had fired two shots, the magazine would have one less cartridge/bullet than its full capacity.​

My understanding is that once a round is in the chamber of a semi-automatic, you take the safety off and the gun is ready to be fired. There is no need to "cock the gun". After the initial bullet is fired, a second round is automatically chambered, with the spent shell being ejected.

Correct.

Incorrect
In the case of Single Action(DA) or DA/SA, operating the slide will load a round into the chamber and cock the gun ready to fire. (Single Action). With DA/SA, the gun can then be "decocked". Now a long heavy trigger pull will cock the gun and fire it (Double Action) - after firing another round will be loaded and the gun will be cocked (The Single Acrion mode)

With Zimmerman's DAO KelTec the only way to cock the gun is to pull the trigger (Double Action Only). After firing, another round will be loaded, but the gun will be uncocked.

 

[a_unique_person]

I don't consider the bullet in the chamber as "extra". But it's just another example of the media putting their little unique twist on the issue, just inflaming an already tragic situation. Why would they keep posting a 3 or 4 year old picture of the victim? They choose not to show a more recent pic of the 17 year old with gold teeth and gang signage.
These little keltec pistols only carry five in the magazine. Having one in the chamber makes six. The design of the actions of these pistols makes them makes them very safe. I am a big proponent of gun safety and after researching these pistols, I wouldn't hesitate to carry one with a round in the chamber.

The events being discussed make it clear they are quite deadly.

What he looked like should not be the issue, but for Zimmerman it was.

 

[sgtbaker]

He had ninety plus calls to 911 correct? Is this a pattern or cherry picking? It could be that he has a lot of calls just as stupid that don't involve black youths.

And of course if he was really obsessed with the break ins, and the suspects in the break ins were all black youths, it would explain it as well.

It might be evidence of racial motives, but as of yet his reported words to neighbors are better evidence of that.

It was 46 calls to the police department and only 9 of them were to report someone suspicious. Mind you, in that same year there were 402 total calls to the police from that area.

Some residents of his gated community declared that Zimmerman was known for being strict and that he went door to door asking them to be on the lookout for "young black men who appear to be outsiders", while others regarded him as "normal," "helpful" and "passionate about neighborhood security", having supposedly thwarted a previous burglary attempt. The community reportedly experienced numerous instances of burglary, theft, and one shooting during the previous year, with 402 calls made to the police. According to the Miami Herald, Zimmerman had placed 46 of those calls since the beginning of 2011, "to report disturbances, break-ins, windows left open and other incidents. Nine of those times, he saw someone or something suspicious".[40]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

 

[leftysergeant]

Why would they keep posting a 3 or 4 year old picture of the victim? They choose not to show a more recent pic of the 17 year old with gold teeth and gang signage.

Got evidence? So far, all i have seen is snide remarks on racist sites to support that story.

 

[ravdin]

Why would they keep posting a 3 or 4 year old picture of the victim? They choose not to show a more recent pic of the 17 year old with gold teeth and gang signage.

What picture would that be? My google fu isn't working, or the MSM is more effective than I thought in covering it up.

Secondly, should Zimmerman have been more suspicious/afraid if he happened to see gold teeth? Did Martin flash a gang sign at him?

 

[LTC8K6]

You said the police were aware of Zimmerman's background. They weren't. At least not at the time of the incident.

How this would have changed the outcome, I don't know. At the very least it shows the police acted with enough bias to take Zimmerman at his word.



What "physical evidence" are you talking about? From what I can tell, the police arrived to find a dead black kid, were told by the white guy who shot him that it was in self-defense, and then released him. Is there some physical evidence I'm not aware of that supports Zimmerman's story?

No, I said that the police said they were aware. I didn't say it. I wouldn't know.

I didn't say anything about any physical evidence, the police did.